Coronavirus (OLD)

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s still available to spend by the new recipient. GDP isn’t a measure of how much money there is, it’s how quickly you can cycle it through the economy.

It should be spent in a more meaningful way, rather than ridiculous false nails, tattoos, and damaging tans.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It should be spent in a more meaningful way, rather than ridiculous false nails, tattoos, and damaging tans.

A bit of a sidetracked crusade there, Nomad!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It should be spent in a more meaningful way, rather than ridiculous false nails, tattoos, and damaging tans.

Just because they're not your thing doesn't mean they're "wrong" in any way.

How the economy recovers is not a matter of who-likes-what. It's a case of what will get cash flowing through the country as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If you don't want false nails, a tattoo or a "damaging tan" then don't have them. But bear in mind when these places reopen there will be literally queues of customers who will be desperate. It matters not one bit whether you or I approve of them. They a source of income for the employees, the companies will (in theory initially, hopefully continuing) prosper and that sort of thing is what the economy needs.

Individual feelings very much need to put to one side.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Just because they're not your thing doesn't mean they're "wrong" in any way.

Agreed

I've already stated that I personally think they're off putting and look stupid . . . much the same as others feel about me smoking, driving a large car, and playing Black Sabbath albums backwards looking for hidden Satanist messages . . . but it does keep the money flowing and people in work.

And paid work of any kind that gets money moving around is what the country probably needs right now, considering many won't have been spending as much as normal* over the last few months.



* . . although the wife & daughter have been trying hard

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by Russ

But businesses all the same. Creating employment and that's pretty much one of the most important things needed right now.

On a different note, I just can't wait until my local gym reopens but we have no date yet. Not all gyms have cardio equipment and those that do can space them out, use plastic clear screens etc and CV doesn't get transmitted through sweat.

I use one of the 24 hour gyms and I've been there at 4am and cleaners have been in there so if that was ramped up, masks made compulsory and elevated safety measures taken I don't see it being any more of a problem than shops etc

We've had notification on some of the plans to reopen our gym all makes me much less inclined to go.
1)No changing or showering facilities.
2)Have to book slots - with how I work that's not easy. I may plan to go 1730-1930 but get a call so work, then eat then want to go 2000-2200.
3)Distancing - OK this may work but some people (especially on weights) work in pairs but at some times gym can be busy with some equipment having queues.

Masks - how does that work wanting to drink while on CV equipment? Heavier masks won't help your breathing, will light ones fall off? Wiping sweat off?

Originally Posted by Russ

Just because they're not your thing doesn't mean they're "wrong" in any way.

I also side with Russ on this one.

None of those things is of any interest to me at whatsoever, but I see no reason people cannot spend money on them if thats their thing.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

We've had notification on some of the plans to reopen our gym all makes me much less inclined to go.
1)No changing or showering facilities.
2)Have to book slots - with how I work that's not easy. I may plan to go 1730-1930 but get a call so work, then eat then want to go 2000-2200.
3)Distancing - OK this may work but some people (especially on weights) work in pairs but at some times gym can be busy with some equipment having queues.

Masks - how does that work wanting to drink while on CV equipment? Heavier masks won't help your breathing, will light ones fall off? Wiping sweat off?

Not all gyms have or centre on cardio equipment. For the record I completed a 6 mile run with a mask on all the way. Sure it was uncomfortable but do-able.

Not having changing facilities wouldn’t be a problem for me, I live a few hundred yards from my gym. Booking slots may be challenging as I’m pretty anti-social in the gym and prefer early morning slots, preferably around 4 or 5am. As for people training in pairs, I’ve never been a fan of that. Twice as long to wait for them to finish plus the long chats whilst “rearing” between sets. If they bring in a no-spotting rule I won’t be too bothered.

[nomadking]

If you're breathing more heavily from exercise, won't that make masks less effective? Air will be forced in and out to a greater extent, and in around the gaps between mask and face.


Isn't this what I've been saying?
Link

In his letter, Sir Tim said the UK would not participate because the "UK would be required to stop its negotiations with manufacturers with which the EU launched negotiations".
He said the commission had also confirmed it was "not possible for the UK to have a role in the governance shaping decisions on which manufacturers to negotiate with, or the price, volume and delivery schedule negotiated".
Sir Tim added that there could still be collaboration between the UK and the EU on areas such as "sharing of information on promising vaccine candidates" and "vaccine trials" and "manufacturing investments and capacity building".

The EU seeking total control.

[Russ]

If the place was full to capacity and people weren't socially distancing then I guess theoretically there's an elevated risk.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Russ

If the place was full to capacity and people weren't socially distancing then I guess theoretically there's an elevated risk.

If you're breathing more heavily then the necessary distance increases.

If you're moving your head around a lot, the maths of simple ballistics shows that also increases the distance travelled. Think of the difference, if a javelin thrower threw the javelin at 45 degrees compared to just horizontally. An angle of 45 degrees gives the maximum amount of travel. The projectile has the opportunity to travel further distance before hitting the ground from gravity. So tilting your head back by eg 20 degrees, increases the distance travelled.

Breathing more heavily also increase the risk of virus particles being forced through any material.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If you're breathing more heavily from exercise, won't that make masks less effective? Air will be forced in and out to a greater extent, and in around the gaps between mask and face.


Isn't this what I've been saying?
Link

You’re still not getting it. There’s nothing 100% effective. If masks are the difference between R being 0.9 or 1.1 that’s huge.

The EU seeking total control.

I’m quite sure you understand the concept of collective bargaining.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If you're breathing more heavily then the necessary distance increases.

If you're moving your head around a lot, the maths of simple ballistics shows that also increases the distance travelled. Think of the difference, if a javelin thrower threw the javelin at 45 degrees compared to just horizontally. An angle of 45 degrees gives the maximum amount of travel. The projectile has the opportunity to travel further distance before hitting the ground from gravity. So tilting your head back by eg 20 degrees, increases the distance travelled.

Breathing more heavily also increase the risk of virus particles being forced through any material.

Not sure about other people as I don’t tend to pay much attention to gym users around me but I can’t say I’ve ever moved my head around much, a lot or even a little when lifting weights. I tend to just move the muscles I’m trying to work.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’re still not getting it. There’s nothing 100% effective. If masks are the difference between R being 0.9 or 1.1 that’s huge.

I’m quite sure you understand the concept of collective bargaining.

The higher the speed of the "projectile", the greater the distance travelled. Again, the maths of basic simple ballistics. A virus particle might sit quite happily on the surface of a mask, but might be sucked in or blown out more easily. Think differences in power in vacuum cleaners. Basic maths and physics. The central point should be, is it an extra unnecessary risk worth taking?



We've already got the agreements in place for a not too dissimilar price. We also have first dibs, rather being last in the EU dictated queue. Firms aren't chasing a profit with this, so collective bargaining isn't relevant, being first in line is. The 100m doses already negotiated would've instead been allocated by the EU. If even we got back that 100m, it would take longer to do so.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The higher the speed of the "projectile", the greater the distance travelled. Again, the maths of basic simple ballistics. A virus particle might sit quite happily on the surface of a mask, but might be sucked in or blown out more easily. Think differences in power in vacuum cleaners. Basic maths and physics. The central point should be, is it an extra unnecessary risk worth taking?

Aggregated over the entire population using one reduces risk. This is a fact regardless of whether someone is exercising or not.

We've already got the agreements in place for a not too dissimilar price. We also have first dibs, rather being last in the EU dictated queue. Firms aren't chasing a profit with this, so collective bargaining isn't relevant, being first in line is. The 100m doses already negotiated would've instead been allocated by the EU. If even we got back that 100m, it would take longer to do so.

Depends who gets the vaccine first.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Aggregated over the entire population using one reduces risk. This is a fact regardless of whether someone is exercising or not.

Depends who gets the vaccine first.

The transmission risk is higher, compared to people breathing normally. That is why singing is banned in churches etc.

You think that countries like Poland and Romania, are going to contribute the full cost of their doses? Even in your nonsense collective bargaining scenario, the UK would be paying over the odds compared to negotiating ourselves, as we would be paying for other countries as well.
Link

“We are further ahead than the EU schemes are. We would have joined the EU scheme if they had allowed us also to continue with our own negotiations, but one of the conditions of the scheme was that we would have had to stop our own negotiations and only do them through the European Commission and we weren’t prepared to do that.
“We think we will go faster this way.”
Mr Hancock confirmed the UK was already putting in contracts with vaccine developers around the world, and was engaging will all 10 of the development projects regarded as the frontrunners, including those at Oxford University and Imperial College London.
“We think that, because we are further ahead, actually the risk would have been to stop the UK procurements and instead be required to buy only through the European Commission route,” he said.

“I think it is actually better to continue with the work that we have been doing, not least, because we have got two of the top candidates here domestically, countries around the world are keen to engage