UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Carth]

Supermarket spokesperson . . up there with 2cnd hand car salesmen, estate agents, divorce lawyers . . . and politicians

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think we can take the word of an organisation that represents NI's leading supermarkets that food deliveries to NI won't be blocked.
If BoJo can step up and finally unveil his state aid proposals that would help too.

The question remains "could the EU block things"? How would the retailers know one way or the other? The EU has yet to agree one way or the other.

The Protocol obliges both the UK and EU to seek to streamline trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and to avoid controls at Northern Ireland ports as far as possible. In line with that obligation, discussions are ongoing about the process by which controls are conducted, and their frequency. This guidance will be updated to take account of those discussions. Specifically, the UK Government recognises the unique position of authorised traders, such as supermarkets, with stable supply chains, and comprehensive oversight of warehousing and distribution operations, moving pre-packaged products for retail sale solely in Northern Ireland. We are continuing to pursue specific solutions for this trade, and this guidance does not therefore apply to this trade.

"We are continuing to pursue specific solutions", means as yet there are NO agreed solutions. No agreed solution = not allowed. The question would be how far would the EU push, in the event of no agreed solution?
Either we have to ask the EU for permission on various matters, or we can do what we want anyway and the bill isn't actually needed. Which is it?

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by nomadking

"We are continuing to pursue specific solutions", means as yet there are NO agreed solutions. No agreed solution = not allowed. The question would be how far would the EU push, in the event of no agreed solution?
Either we have to ask the EU for permission on various matters, or we can do what we want anyway and the bill isn't actually needed. Which is it?

The quote you posted had the following line;

In line with that obligation, discussions are ongoing about the process by which controls are conducted, and their frequency

It's not asking what controls need to be in place, that as been agreed, cementing Northern Irelands place in the Single Market. All that is needed are the formal UK documents stating the standards that will be followed.

The 'what' has been agreed and just needs to be formalised, the 'how' has not

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The quote you posted had the following line;

It's not asking what controls need to be in place, that as been agreed, cementing Northern Irelands place in the Single Market. All that is needed are the formal UK documents stating the standards that will be followed.

The 'what' has been agreed and just needs to be formalised, the 'how' has not

Nothing contradictory about it. An agreement HASN'T yet been made, with little over 3 months to go. No agreed solution = not allowed. EG if you need permission from somebody else to get access to somewhere, and they don't give it, you don't have access. NI is ALSO part of the UK single market.

So what is this "what" that has been agreed? Any "how" is part of the "what", and would still be something we had to ask the EU permission about.
There are no existing EU rules to deal with the situation of movement of goods from GB to NI, other than a hard border and tariffs.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Nothing contradictory about it. An agreement HASN'T yet been made, with little over 3 months to go. No agreed solution = not allowed. EG if you need permission from somebody else to get access to somewhere, and they don't give it, you don't have access. NI is ALSO part of the UK single market.

So what is this "what" that has been agreed? Any "how" is part of the "what", and would still be something we had to ask the EU permission about.
There are no existing EU rules to deal with the situation of movement of goods from GB to NI, other than a hard border and tariffs.

Nomad has made an important assessment.

The bit that I have italicised is the sticking point. Unless there is formal agreement to the effect that we must ask permission of the EU to do something, that simply must not happen in relation to the UK internal market.

Looks like there will be a lorry border to enter Kent. Trucks will need a 'Kent Access Permit" permit to enter it and it'll be enforced by a combination of cameras and the police.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Nomad has made an important assessment.

The bit that I have italicised is the sticking point. Unless there is formal agreement to the effect that we must ask permission of the EU to do something, that simply must not happen in relation to the UK internal market.

Jon's explanation is pretty clear to be fair - all that's outstanding are the formal UK documents stating the standards that will be followed.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Jon's explanation is pretty clear to be fair - all that's outstanding are the formal UK documents stating the standards that will be followed.

This is all about goods moved between GB and NI, NOT goods originating in NI. Goods in GB will NOT be subject to EU rules, hence the issues.
The Joint Committee is due to meet on Mon 28th Sept. The issues I've highlighted, amongst others, have yet to be agreed, hence the Cabinet Office article saying what has yet to be agreed.

The third meeting of the EU-UK Joint Committee under the Withdrawal Agreement will take place on Monday 28 September 2020. Due to the coronavirus outbreak, the meeting will take place in Brussels and by videoconference.

Provisional agenda for the third meeting of the Joint Committee
28 September 2020
(Hybrid meeting: Brussels + videoconference)
1. Introduction and opening remarks from the Co-Chairs
1.1 Stocktake of Specialised Committee meetings
2. Implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement:
2.1 Citizens’ rights
2.2 Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland
2.3 Protocol on Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus
2.4 Protocol on Gibraltar
2.5 Financial provisions
3. AOB and concluding remarks

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

This is all about goods moved between GB and NI, NOT goods originating in NI. Goods in GB will NOT be subject to EU rules, hence the issues.
The Joint Committee is due to meet on Mon 28th Sept. The issues I've highlighted, amongst others, have yet to be agreed, hence the Cabinet Office article saying what has yet to be agreed.

Your first sentence comes across as somewhat confusing as Jon did not mention goods originating in NI. And you've not highlighted any items on Monday's agenda. Is it the Protocol on Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus? I'm afraid I can't mindread you!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Your first sentence comes across as somewhat confusing as Jon did not mention goods originating in NI. And you've not highlighted any items on Monday's agenda. Is it the Protocol on Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus? I'm afraid I can't mindread you!

It's a list of unresolved matters, which includes "2.2 Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland".

He said, "It's not asking what controls need to be in place, that as been agreed, cementing Northern Irelands place in the Single Market. All that is needed are the formal UK documents stating the standards that will be followed.". That only applies to goods originating in NI. The bill is about moving goods from GB to NI.
Link

The new bill sets out rules for the operation of the UK internal market - trade between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - after the end of the Brexit transition period in January.
It proposes:

• No new checks on goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of Great Britain
• Giving UK ministers powers to modify or "disapply" rules relating to the movement of goods that will come into force from 1 January if the UK and EU are unable to reach an alternative agreement through a trade deal
• Powers to override previously agreed obligations on state aid - government support for businesses

The bill explicitly states that these powers should apply even if they are incompatible with international law.
Ministers say the legislation is needed to prevent "damaging" tariffs on goods travelling from the rest of the UK to Northern Ireland if negotiations with the EU on a free trade agreement fail.

Moving goods under the Northern Ireland Protocol section two: moving goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland

The Protocol entails some new administrative processes for traders, notably new digital import declaration requirements, and digital safety and security information, for goods entering Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK.
...
The Protocol requires a UK-EU Joint Committee decision on the application of tariffs on ‘at risk’ goods moving into Northern Ireland. Full details will be provided subsequent to that decision; but for these purposes, it is important to note that the ultimate destination of goods and whether, for example, traders will be selling them in Northern Ireland or moving them on to Ireland/the EU, will become relevant in the future.

This guidance may be subject to further updates in the light of developments in the UK-EU Joint Committee or other discussions. This is highlighted where relevant.

So issues not finalised.

4.6 Non-freight Any requirements for goods in luggage, Royal Mail and parcels are still under consideration. Further guidance will be set out in due course.

What happens to parcels from GB to NI, if the EU doesn't give their permission? If the EU can't block it, then there are no requirements needing to be considered, and everything carries on as now.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Looks like there will be a lorry border to enter Kent. Trucks will need a 'Kent Access Permit" permit to enter it and it'll be enforced by a combination of cameras and the police.

Which of these statements does today's statement come closest to?
a) "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside" (David Davis).
b) "The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" (Michael Gove. Did he actually mean "park" not "path"?).
c) "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards" (John Redwood. The cards that BoJo's holding all start with J and none is a jack!)
d) Project Fear.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Which of these statements does today's statement come closest to?
a) "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside" (David Davis).
b) "The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want" (Michael Gove. Did he actually mean "park" not "path"?).
c) "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards" (John Redwood. The cards that BoJo's holding all start with J and none is a jack!)
d) Project Fear.

Still accepting the result then

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Still accepting the result then

Absolutely. Doesn't mean that we can't criticise promises v reality though.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Absolutely. Doesn't mean that we can't criticise promises v reality though.

+1

Having the checkpoint coming into Kent makes sense though as it prevents the build up being down at the ports and disrupting everyone else. The assumption here would be anyone that enters Kent without permission can be intercepted before they arrive in Dover/Folkstone and steered away rather than blocking anyone at the port.