Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by Rob

Apathy in all walks of life counts for a lot.

Opt Out, many just won't bother, or at least that will be the assumption, as it's something else to do.

Opt In, same argument applies.

usual thing of most people do not change from default settings, take wireless routers and the number of insecure ones around

thats the reason phorm want it opt out

peter

[D_Advocate]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

No this information has not been published anywhere.

So there is no certainty that the trials will actually take place, and
statements pertaining to such are purely speculative ?

There may be some grounds for that speculation, considering that
BT have announced an intention to carry out the trials, but that
is by no means definitive considering the current climate.

D_A

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Does anybody have a date/time as to when the next BT trials
of Phorm are taking place (if indeed they are), and which geographical
area they will be targeting ?

D_A

Gavin Patterson said 'in a couple of weeks time' at the AGM, after I'd suggested it might launch in 24hrs (quoting recent hype from gullible newspapers).

Given they've been saying that since February, make of it what you will.

From the ICO documents released to me, it seems they are planning to target 10,000 users on the Kingston RAS, which apparently serves most of the south of England, and parts of Scotland (R Jones and his friends from BT forums might be able to confirm) before rolling out across the network.

Unless of course they are prudent enough to listen to advice from the Earl of Northesk.

[AlexanderHanff]

Let us not forget there have been 4 polls now regarding this technology and all of them have been overwhelmingly anti-Webwise.

The poll here resulted in 95.5% rejection rate
The ISP Review Poll resulted in 56% of participants stating they would leave their ISP
The NoDPI Poll shows 89% of participants feel BT should be prosecuted for the covert trials.

Finally the poll which appeared yesterday (I forget the URL) showed 65% of people would leave their ISP.

BT -claim- their own poll goes against these figures, but since they refuse to make it available, we only have their word on that.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

So there is no certainty that the trials will actually take place, and
statements pertaining to such are purely speculative ?

There may be some grounds for that speculation, considering that
BT have announced an intention to carry out the trials, but that
is by no means definitive considering the current climate.

D_A

Actually no it is not speculation at all. BT have made dozens of press releases and stated in the AGM yesterday that they will be trialing this technology in the near future (normally the press releases say next couple of weeks). So we are not speculating, we are going on information directly from BT.

Alexander Hanff

[D_Advocate]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Let us not forget there have been 4 polls now regarding this technology and all of them have been overwhelmingly anti-Webwise.

The poll here resulted in 95.5% rejection rate
The ISP Review Poll resulted in 56% of participants stating they would leave their ISP
The NoDPI Poll shows 89% of participants feel BT should be prosecuted for the covert trials.

Finally the poll which appeared yesterday (I forget the URL) showed 65% of people would leave their ISP.

Polls without published numbers of those polled are hardly relevant.
95.5% of 20 people (for example) can hardly be considered 'overwhelming'.

Actually no it is not speculation at all. BT have made dozens of press releases and stated in the AGM yesterday that they will be trialing this technology in the near future (normally the press releases say next couple of weeks). So we are not speculating, we are going on information directly from BT.

So, we can trust BT on this ? They always do what they say ? They always say what they are doing ?

D_A

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Polls without published numbers of those polled are hardly relevant.
95.5% of 20 people can hardly be considered 'overwhelming'.



So, we can trust BT on this ? They always do what they say ? They always say what they are doing ?

D_A

If you actually bother to look at the polls you can see the numbers. The CableForum poll is at the top of every single page in this thread. The ISPr poll I posted is linked to directly from that post. The NoDPI poll is on every page of the NoDPI web site and I have now found the link to the other poll I referred to:

http://www.nma.co.uk/Articles/38754/...aten+ISPs.html

This poll was independent and was nothing to do with the Anti Phorm campaign.

The BT Poll consisted of 1400 people if memory serves, I am sure others have a link to that information they would be happy to share, I don't have it to hand.

As for the speculation comments. Speculation would be if we were to say BT are going to trial Phorm without any evidence to support it; this is clearly not the case, BT have insisted time and again to the press, the public, their shareholders, ICO and the Home Office that they are going to start a third trial in the near future. So it is not speculation, I fail to see which part of that you find difficult to understand.

Alexander Hanff

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Polls without published numbers of those polled are hardly relevant.
95.5% of 20 people (for example) can hardly be considered 'overwhelming'.

D_A

Try looking at the top of this page. I'm not aware, personally, that any of the polls quoted (except, of course, BT's) did not publish numbers polled.

It's also worth noting that the Downing Street petition is No 4 in terms of numbers. (15,000+, which is not in itself a big percentage of internet users, but it IS significant that it is the fourth most subscribed to petition.

[3x2]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...ebuad_hearing/

"Do you support a policy where the consumer must say 'yes' before you roam through all their personal data and then turn it into an information product that is then sold to other companies?" asked the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet.

"Mr. Chairman," Dykes replied, "you're forcing me to answer one of those Have-you-stopped-beating-your-wife-recently questions."

I guess we have our answer then.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by 3x2

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...ebuad_hearing/




I guess we have our answer then.

Yes I thought that was a very strange response, I am not sure if he thought it would help his case, if he did then I would suggest he needs better advisors.

Alexander Hanff

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Polls without published numbers of those polled are hardly relevant.
95.5% of 20 people (for example) can hardly be considered 'overwhelming'.

So, we can trust BT on this ? They always do what they say ? They always say what they are doing ?

D_A

D_Advocate look at the poll at the top of this page, over a 1000 votes cast, independantly verified by CF and each user could only vote once, it was only closed when phorm PR where caught trying to abuse it and alter the result, and that fact can be confirmed by the moderators here

if you go to the locations of the other polls you will no doubt be able to verify the figures you require

peter

[Raistlin]

I'm not in the habit of repeating myself.

For those that still haven't got the message - the funding of the anti-phorm campaign is not an appropriate topic of conversation for this thread or this Forum.

It should be discussed at nodpi.org, where the original fundraising request was made.

[3x2]

Reminds me of those organised crime hearings way back when. The answers to most of the questions involved the fifth amendment.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

It is blatantly obvious that an opt-in model would cripple their revenues. People just do not want this technology as the latest poll shows, so there is no reason to think they would opt-in to it. Opt-Out guarantees Phorm almost 90% of the entire broadband market here in the UK, Opt-In guarantees Phorm's failure.

Alexander Hanff

Not only do people do not want this technology, people appear to also not trust this technology. When people also find out that this technology is in the hands of ex spyware companies like Phorm (121Media) who have shown, cunning, deception and lots of smoke and mirrors historically in the past, some people seem to have a genuine mistrust.

Personally, when I read quoted statements that Phorm uses from other sources far more respected than I, sometimes I feel that Phorm's text could mislead the reader. Yes, the sources they quote and the words that are said are often factual, but not always the true context of what was said by the original writer comes across in the manner in which it is reported. I have read a damming report on Phorm and when I looked at the quotes picked out by Phorm from that same report, if I had not read the original report, I could have believed Phorm/Webwise was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

This to me is not a sign that a leopard has changed its spots. It makes me mistrust Phorm even more. Is this transparency?

[D_Advocate]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Gavin Patterson said 'in a couple of weeks time' at the AGM, after I'd suggested it might launch in 24hrs (quoting recent hype from gullible newspapers).

Given they've been saying that since February, make of it what you will.

From the ICO documents released to me, it seems they are planning to target 10,000 users on the Kingston RAS, which apparently serves most of the south of England, and parts of Scotland (R Jones and his friends from BT forums might be able to confirm) before rolling out across the network.

Unless of course they are prudent enough to listen to advice from the Earl of Northesk.

Thanks for the information Dephormation.

I didn't realise it was also being trialled in Scotland. I look forward to receiving their invitation

I would ask Robert, but I don't think he's speaking to me at the moment (or at least not listening to me )

D_A

[Bob W]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Indeed it is about personal privacy, but doesn't that encompass accountability ? How many posts in this thread have been about BT's accountability ? .. or is it one rule for one and a different rule for others ?

D_A

Transparency, Honesty, Accountability and Trust is what IMO this campaign has been about.

As to 'one rule', it seems that in this country, there is a different rule for large corporations and their executives, they can carry out 'technical breaches' of the law with impunity.

If Phorm/ Webwise ever goes live on VM's network, my 'public funds' will be withdrawn from their income.

(second attempt)