Brexit discussion

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It certainly won't be if we take the same approach as we have all the other negotiating points, i.e. concede

Er, but isn't that what you wanted, Andrew?

What we want is a good trade and financial services deal, out of EU, out of single market, out of customs union.

If we achieve that, job done. The sky will not cave in.

[heero_yuy]

And if the ALL the EU states and parliament don't agree it, then it's all a load of hot air and we leave properly in a year. Which is what the country voted for in the first place. Not half in, half out, transition, do nothing, put off, kick the can down the road rubbish.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

And if the ALL the EU states and parliament don't agree it, then it's all a load of hot air and we leave properly in a year. Which is what the country voted for in the first place.

I like the sound of that

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Er, but isn't that what you wanted, Andrew?

What we want is a good trade and financial services deal, out of EU, out of single market, out of customs union.

If we achieve that, job done. The sky will not cave in.

I want what the 52% want according to 2018's YouGov polls.
A good trade deal is somewhat vague.
The EU has put a Canada-style free trade deal on the table which will involve lots of port delays and costs for manufacturing and won't solve the Irish border issue. Costs to manufacturing lead to fewer jobs in the long term.
Theresa May has accepted that there will be no financial services passporting so a deal on financial services is looking a no-no. Your wild dreams of an amazing deal are now as cold as the weather. Perhaps it's time to reconsider what's actually important. Is it more money for our depleted armed forces, roads, schools and NHS through the economic growth we will get from remaining in the EU with its ever-growing trade deals throughout the world? Or a box-ticking exercise to leave the EU and have continued austerity?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I want what the 52% want according to 2018's YouGov polls.
A good trade deal is somewhat vague.
The EU has put a Canada-style free trade deal on the table which will involve lots of port delays and costs for manufacturing and won't solve the Irish border issue. Costs to manufacturing lead to fewer jobs in the long term.
Theresa May has accepted that there will be no financial services passporting so a deal on financial services is looking a no-no. Your wild dreams of an amazing deal are now as cold as the weather. Perhaps it's time to reconsider what's actually important. Is it more money for our depleted armed forces, roads, schools and NHS through the economic growth we will get from remaining in the EU with its ever-growing trade deals throughout the world? Or a box-ticking exercise to leave the EU and have continued austerity?

You're so funny, Andrew. Your doom laden post paints a picture that I most certainly do not recognise.

If you are expecting the detail to be there for all to see at this stage, I'm sorry, but you are going to have to wait. We will get a trade deal and the border issues will be resolved. As for financial services, we know that passporting is unlikely to be available, but that doesn't mean that we can't get an agreement.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You're so funny, Andrew. Your doom laden post paints a picture that I most certainly do not recognise.

You need to look around and you see what Brexit-induced low economic growth and austerity is doing to the country.

Prince Harry highlights shrinking defence budgets as he returns to Army school
Former senior military commanders have warned MPs that years of defence cuts have left Britain's armed forces "close to breaking"...There have been reports that parts of the military face further cuts, including the Royal Marines, regular troop numbers and amphibious assault ships.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-ha...chool-11292657

Tory county council runs out of cash to meet obligations
A Conservative-run county council has signalled it is close to effective bankruptcy after admitting that “severe financial challenges” mean it is unable to meet its financial obligations in the current year.
Northamptonshire county council issued a section 114 notice on Friday afternoon imposing financial controls and banning expenditure on all services except for its statutory obligations to safeguard vulnerable people.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...et-obligations

Waiting times at major A&E departments worst on record in January, figures reveal
The NHS has suffered the worst pressure in its history this winter, Jeremy Hunt has said, as new statistics show record Accident & Emergency delays.
More than 1,000 patients faced trolley waits of more than 12 hours in January, after doctors had decided they should be admitted to a ward. The figure is the highest on record, and more than twice that the previous month.
Overall. just 77.1 per cent of patients at major A&E units were treated within four hours, against a target of 95 per cent

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...igures-reveal/

Cycling deaths and injuries soar as potholes go unfixed.
The number of cyclists killed or seriously injured on Britain’s pothole-strewn roads has tripled in a decade.
Figures from the Department for Transport show that 71 cyclists were killed or seriously injured in accidents linked to poorly maintained roads in 2016, up from 22 in 2006. The increase far outstrips the general rise in cycling over the same period; it is estimated that the distance covered by bicycles increased by 50 per cent.
The figures have prompted demands for a dedicated road maintenance fund amid concerns that cash-strapped local authorities are using billions intended for transport to fund other areas such as social care.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...ixed-2jm73xc8f

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

.. all of the above . .

. . . has been happening long before Brexit, or does your memory only go back as far as the referendum?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

. . . has been happening long before Brexit, or does your memory only go back as far as the referendum?

No need to be sarcastic, let's politely disagree.

If we had the greater economic growth that we were due then the Chancellor could afford to relax his tight reign on spending. As it is, we won't. Greater costs from a weakened Pound are putting a squeeze on spending. This is manifesting itself in several ways including contributing to shop and restaurant closures.

A big factor has been a fall in discretionary spending, spurred by rising shop prices and weak wage growth.
A near 15% fall in the pound since the Brexit vote has pushed inflation over 3% - way above the Bank of England's 2% target. This has made imported goods more expensive, with those costs passed on to consumers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43240996

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No need to be sarcastic, let's politely disagree.

If we had the greater economic growth that we were due then the Chancellor could afford to relax his tight reign on spending. As it is, we won't. Greater costs from a weakened Pound are putting a squeeze on spending. This is manifesting itself in several ways including contributing to shop and restaurant closures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43240996

the Brextremists wont believe any evidence even if was a 2 ton weight punching them in the face

And rightly so. Because it’s not evidence. For it to be evidence, an event has to have occurred. Brexit has not happened yet, so there can be no evidence of any kind.

I know in your selfish reasons you want Brexit to fail Dave, but we managed before 1975, and we will again, without a corrupt and dirty expanding entity, deciding things for the country.

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No need to be sarcastic, let's politely disagree.

If we had the greater economic growth that we were due then the Chancellor could afford to relax his tight reign on spending. As it is, we won't. Greater costs from a weakened Pound are putting a squeeze on spending. This is manifesting itself in several ways including contributing to shop and restaurant closures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43240996

That weaker £ has now recovered by a lot. But nice try, trying to manipulate the facts, as always.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

And rightly so. Because it’s not evidence. For it to be evidence, an event has to have occurred. Brexit has not happened yet, so there can be no evidence of any kind.

I know in your selfish reasons you want Brexit to fail Dave, but we managed before 1975, and we will again, without a corrupt and dirty expanding entity, deciding things for the country.

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------



That weaker £ has now recovered by a lot. But nice try, trying to manipulate the facts, as always.

Just checked the EUR GBP exchange rates. By what measure is a lot - https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...to=EUR&view=2Y

While we are on facts, is there evidence of systemic corruption by the European Union?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No need to be sarcastic, let's politely disagree.

Sorry Andrew, wasn't meant in a sarcastic manner, I simply forgot to add the 'wink' smilie

. . . and I thought we'd already discussed shop closures being caused by internet sales and failure to adapt to changing circumstances in a different thread topic

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Just checked the EUR GBP exchange rates. By what measure is a lot - https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...to=EUR&view=2Y

While we are on facts, is there evidence of systemic corruption by the European Union?

Indeed while there is corruption in the EU there is plenty in our own country unless one has blinkers on.

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Just checked the EUR GBP exchange rates. By what measure is a lot - https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...to=EUR&view=2Y

You're another one who manipulates the facts as well, you knew very well I was talking about the £ vs the $.

Originally Posted by jonbxx

While we are on facts, is there evidence of systemic corruption by the European Union?

Yes, absolutely, remove the rose tinted EU glasses you are wearing, lots of it has been around for decades, I have no inclination of listing 40 years worth of it.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Indeed while there is corruption in the EU there is plenty in our own country unless one has blinkers on.

No there is not plenty in our country at all. I am not saying it does not exist, but you make it sound we live in a dictatorship that bends all the rules and international laws and treaties, we do no such thing.

[denphone]

We certainly live in no dictatorship that is for sure Mick but plenty of corruption is hidden with bribes and backhanders and plenty more pretty endemic once one scratches below the surface.