E10 petrol - the pitfalls.

[Mad Max]

A garage killed my 27-year-old Skoda,

lmfao...

[Taf]

The primary route for water contamination in fuels was determined to be via condensation in fuel tanks, not by simple contact with damp air. The droplets would sink to the bottom of the tank and be absorbed by the ethanol as it broke down by phase separation, which could take weeks or months, depending on conditions.

According to CSP (https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/3...ase-separation) it only takes 40 gallons of water in 10,000 gallons of E10 to cause phase separation. That's 250:1, so in a 50 litre Logan fuel tank, just 20cl of water would do it. That's less than a pub measure of spirits.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Mad Max

lmfao...

They changed the front disks, hubs, callipers and pads in December 2021. They also changed a back tyre.

When I took the car for that same tyre to be repaired elsewhere after picking up a nail, I was told that they were having difficulty getting the wheel nuts back on. They showed me stripped threads in the hub.

They managed to get the wheel on secure, but suggested the hub be changed.

So l took the car to the original garage for it's service and MOT in December 2022. No call from them later in the day, but they sometimes take 2 days to get it done, so I didn't call until early the next day. No-one answered the phone. Several phone calls didn't get answered throughout the day. But on the third day they answered, blaming a glitch that cut their phones off.

The boss came on the phone and said that my car was a write-off. Their pneumatic hammer tools that tighten the wheel nuts had been wrongly calibrated by an outside firm, and had been tightening them far too much. He had spent 2 days trying to find replacement parts, both front and rear hubs, but they were in stock nowhere, even in Czechia where they were made.

A few other customers had their hub threads stripped also, and one went to Trading Standards. The garage owner was told to recall all vehicles they had removed and replaced wheels on. That was in the summer of 2022, but for some reason my car had not been recalled.

He reported my car as "damaged beyond repair" to Trading Standards and their own insurance company, including photos and bills for the work that had been done, in 2021 and 2022.

It's with the insurance companies now, so I expect a fat cheque at some point.

[SnoopZ]

Originally Posted by Taf

The primary route for water contamination in fuels was determined to be via condensation in fuel tanks, not by simple contact with damp air. The droplets would sink to the bottom of the tank and be absorbed by the ethanol as it broke down by phase separation, which could take weeks or months, depending on conditions.

According to CSP (https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/3...ase-separation) it only takes 40 gallons of water in 10,000 gallons of E10 to cause phase separation. That's 250:1, so in a 50 litre Logan fuel tank, just 20cl of water would do it. That's less than a pub measure of spirits.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------



They changed the front disks, hubs, callipers and pads in December 2021. They also changed a back tyre.

When I took the car for that same tyre to be repaired elsewhere after picking up a nail, I was told that they were having difficulty getting the wheel nuts back on. They showed me stripped threads in the hub.

They managed to get the wheel on secure, but suggested the hub be changed.

So l took the car to the original garage for it's service and MOT in December 2022. No call from them later in the day, but they sometimes take 2 days to get it done, so I didn't call until early the next day. No-one answered the phone. Several phone calls didn't get answered throughout the day. But on the third day they answered, blaming a glitch that cut their phones off.

The boss came on the phone and said that my car was a write-off. Their pneumatic hammer tools that tighten the wheel nuts had been wrongly calibrated by an outside firm, and had been tightening them far too much. He had spent 2 days trying to find replacement parts, both front and rear hubs, but they were in stock nowhere, even in Czechia where they were made.

A few other customers had their hub threads stripped also, and one went to Trading Standards. The garage owner was told to recall all vehicles they had removed and replaced wheels on. That was in the summer of 2022, but for some reason my car had not been recalled.

He reported my car as "damaged beyond repair" to Trading Standards and their own insurance company, including photos and bills for the work that had been done, in 2021 and 2022.

It's with the insurance companies now, so I expect a fat cheque at some point.

What was the valuation of your old car?

[GrimUpNorth]

I know it's no help to you now but I go to a small garage and the boss there doesn't use air guns for this very reason. He's got his old trusted wheel brace and checks the nuts with a torque wrench when he puts them back on.

I know it's in the hands of the insurance companies but I bet you could still do without the hassle.

[martkt10]

You could just remove the ethanol from the petrol , i do so my lawn mower keeps running ok

Originally Posted by martkt10

You could just remove the ethanol from the petrol , i do so my lawn mower keeps running ok

Surely it’s more cost effective to just use premium unleaded than to muck about separating the ethanol from E10?

Originally Posted by Chris

Surely it’s more cost effective to just use premium unleaded than to muck about separating the ethanol from E10?

For something like a lawnmower, where you only need a few litres. its not hard or expensive.
All you do is mix it with water, shake, leave, and drain away the water. However, its not really practical to keep doing it to fill a car.

Originally Posted by Paul

For something like a lawnmower, where you only need a few litres. its not hard or expensive.
All you do is mix it with water, shake, leave, and drain away the water. However, its not really practical to keep doing it to fill a car.

It’s great that you’re not spending money on equipment or consumables to do the separation, however if you get all the ethanol out, you end up with only 90% of the fuel you paid for.

On average, premium unleaded is 10p a litre more than regular E10 but at current prices, removing the ethanol leaves you short of 15p worth of your E10. Yes it’s only 5p but even for a lawnmower it hardly seems worth doing the chemistry.

I dunno maybe it’s just me. I started putting premium in mine last season. No stress no fuss … it actually seemed to sound happier, although that’s not saying much for my knackered old machine. Then we moved house and I left it behind anyway. I have a smaller lawn and an electric mower now.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

What was the valuation of your old car?

I had an "Agreed Value" of £1k, but I don't know what their insurers will come up with.

[Mad Max]

I would have thought a 27-year-old Skoda would be scrap material.

[SnoopZ]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I would have thought a 27-year-old Skoda would be scrap material.

Yer I can't see an Insurance company paying £1000 for most 27 year old cars let alone a 27 year old skip...... Errr Skoda!

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I would have thought a 27-year-old Skoda would be scrap material.

The only rust that had to be repaired was in a rear wheel arch where the weld was split by dropping off a jack before I bought it.

One new exhaust about 10 years ago, 5 tyres (cracked not bald), a new alternator 6 years ago, and a refurb of the starter motor 2 years ago.

And with 47k on the clock, it was barely run-in.

[Taf]

Back on subject:

The primary route for water contamination in fuels was determined to be via condensation in fuel tanks, not by simple contact with damp air. The droplets would sink to the bottom of the tank and be absorbed by the ethanol as it broke down by phase separation, which could take weeks or months, depending on conditions.

According to CSP (https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/3...ase-separation) it only takes 40 gallons of water in 10,000 gallons of E10 to cause phase separation. That's 250:1, so in a 50 litre Logan fuel tank, just 20cl of water would do it.

That's less than a pub measure of spirits!

[Mr K]

E10? Rubbish. Meths is a far superior drink.

[raging bull]

When it comes to petrol garden equipment, E5 is the prefered fuel.
I belong to a charity which is charged with keeping our local graveyard tidy, £1000 mower doesn't like E10 coughs and splutters whilst E5 ir runs sweet!
We found that if using E10 the ethanol mix attacks the fuel lines and causes sediment to collect.
We now over the last 4yrs empty all the fuel from our assorted Stahl strimmers when season closes end November.