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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
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Old 07-03-2008, 18:50   #736
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhormUKtechteam View Post
Thanks Mick
To be clear, yes I work for an external agency for Phorm - a UK PR agency. My job is solely to take the information Phorm is making available - the interviews, the Q&As etc and place them into these discussions. I believe I am totally open about this - my log in name is pretty clear, and the first line of my introduction clearly states who I work for. It is my job to simply present the facts about Phorm.
while its refreshing to see the truth from your good PR self as regards your workplace, dont you think it would have been better to pick better screens names, as your not infact UKtechteam but rather UKPRteam.

as the Phorm 3rd party UKPRteam, how do you propose to correctly answer the real Tech questions that are in many places and asked by even more people....?

is there also a UKlegalTeam to answer the RIPA/DPA/copyright and several other UK and EU legal questions.

or are the millions of UK ISP users effected by the ISP/Phorm contract going to be left with no other 'in good faith' option but to start small claims court proceedings (as was done with the UK banks due to no other 'in good faith' options being put forward by the offending banking partys) against the ISPs and Phorm etc.

perhaps to get the answers and rulings to restate the acts in question, and return some balance to the one sided contracts, and once again remove 3rd partys from interfering with the UK consumers?
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Old 07-03-2008, 18:54   #737
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

80/20 Thinking is a consulting business founded and run by Managing Director Simon Davies, who is also a director of Privacy International, one of the leading privacy advocacy bodies. Phorm has retained 80/20 Thinking to conduct a Privacy Impact Assessment on its technologies, systems and policies and we will work with them on an ongoing basis throughout the year.
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Old 07-03-2008, 18:54   #738
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by none View Post
Yeah the Phorm PR boys are doing the rounds on most of the tech sites. Most of the replies they give contain generic answers that have been cut n paste from other replies given elsewhere. A simple damage limitation exercise imo.


Now, lets just recap,
A member of the Phorm tech team came on this board yesterday and categorically stated that “If you are not part of the system ie opted out no data will be processed by phorm. I really hope that's clear.”
Clear indeed, although deliberately misleading. Why? Well because although no data is processed, it does still pass through Phorm (as I suspected all along).

Consider this quote here from their CEO Kent Ertegrul - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...rul/page3.html


So there you have it, data is still mirrored onto a profiler, opting out is irrelevant as to whether data passes though the Phorm system, as clearly it does, no matter what. There is no real opt out other than switching to a Phorm-Free ISP.


In that same interview Kent Ertegrul keeps banging on about how bad google is, but see thing is, I can choose not to use google if I so want. With Phorm there is no REAL choice. Data still passes through the Phorm system.

I’m more angry now after reading that interview than I was before.
this was quote from someone on a rival forum on this interview.

Quote:
So, the long term goal of Phorm is Net Neutrality. It is well know that some would like to see the internet controlled somehow, companies such as Phorm using their technology can take this process forward.
Websites and users not opted-in to Phorm will have their connection throttled by the ISP, those that opt-in will not, in the end, only those websites that opt-in will manage to survive, of course you will have to adhere to their polices, which could mean no criticism of Governments/Companies ect.. which have signed up to Phorm.
I have said myself there is an hidden interior agenda we know the government hitting hard on certain internet activities. You really can see where this could easily go to what this poster says.

While in certain cases its a very good idea to police activity its the worry where it will all end. Ultimately it treats everyone as guilty and treads on or civil liberties.
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Old 07-03-2008, 18:59   #739
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by popper View Post
while its refreshing to see the truth from your good PR self as regards your workplace, dont you think it would have been better to pick better screens names, as your not infact UKtechteam but rather UKPRteam.
Yes, perhaps one of the mods could make this change for them.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:03   #740
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

I was starting to think TechTeam was a PR agency.

It smacks of a couple of years ago where (allegedly) the then chairman of Southampton FC had a PR agency attempt to Influence the flow of information in an upcoming battle for company ownership on the most popular forum for Southampton FC fans.

but frankly TechTeam and PhormUKTechTeam, as far as we know has no detailed knowledge of the workings of ISP's data capture Phorms patents, and the like.

Maybe they're just passing on uniformed propaganda meant to mislead us and stall on complaining to the ISP's involved.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:16   #741
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhormUKtechteam View Post
80/20 Thinking is a consulting business founded and run by Managing Director Simon Davies, who is also a director of Privacy International, one of the leading privacy advocacy bodies. Phorm has retained 80/20 Thinking to conduct a Privacy Impact Assessment on its technologies, systems and policies and we will work with them on an ongoing basis throughout the year.
So your company and privacy international have vested interest to be economical with the truth. Seems to me Simon Davies sold his soul for £££.

Again Why have you not answered our queries.

If that is why your here.

popper, none, florence, myself plus many more etc have put some very good questions. Which you eloquently seem to be ignoring just try and justify your existence.

Yet you still have not given us your answer. Though I suspect it will be typical PR spin and NOT the truth.

What is so hard to be absolutely transparant of the operation and its effect and implications to us. What is VM set to gain from PHORM and what has PHORM got to hide.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul nolan View Post
I was starting to think TechTeam was a PR agency.

It smacks of a couple of years ago where (allegedly) the then chairman of Southampton FC had a PR agency attempt to Influence the flow of information in an upcoming battle for company ownership on the most popular forum for Southampton FC fans.

but frankly TechTeam and PhormUKTechTeam, as far as we know have no detailed knowledge of the workings of ISP's data capture Phorms patents, and the like.

Maybe they're just passing on uniformed propaganda meant to mislead us and stall on complaining to the ISP's involved.
thats true but sadly it still goes on console/HD war had them. SKY/VM has them activelty TROLLING.

Its hard to even say they are PR people more just a normal bloke paid to troll various forums.

Next we will be hearing fby them all ISP's will do it.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:29   #742
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Ok i said i was not going to comment on this but reading that we now have a PR person for phorm on here i couldn't resist. Do you understand that the vast majority of us have zero trust in phorm and any of it's promises or reassurances and who exactly thought it was a good idea to have PR company employee's trying to convince the masses given that PR is also not something we the general population overly appreciate??.

If you can tell me and all the others here how we avoid completely totally and utterly anything to do with phorm and our internet i am happy to hear it other then that you will save yourself a a great deal of time by going out and buying a dead horse and a whip (on company exspenses of course). While i understand your just doing a job you have to understand we don't want phorm there is no slant you can put on it WE DON'T WANT IT.

Please relay that information to your client and hopefully they will get the hint. If this does come to be implemented by VM other then cancel all VM services i have i will try and find out what companys employ phorm and will boycott all of their products contacting them to let them know why i am boycotting something else we can all do.
 
Old 07-03-2008, 19:34   #743
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Here is a new question. Being as EY has done a US privacy review and the other Privacy reviews are done to US standards, why is this being marketed to UK ISPs first when grabbing ISPs such as Time Warner Cable or Verizon FiOS or Cablevision or ComCast would get more subscribers.

So why is the initial introduction into the UK marked, not the US one where most internet innovation usually occurs first?
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:47   #744
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle View Post
So your company and privacy international have vested interest to be economical with the truth. Seems to me Simon Davies sold his soul for £££.

Again Why have you not answered our queries.

If that is why your here.

popper, none, florence, myself plus many more etc have put some very good questions. Which you eloquently seem to be ignoring just try and justify your existence.

Yet you still have not given us your answer. Though I suspect it will be typical PR spin and NOT the truth.

What is so hard to be absolutely transparant of the operation and its effect and implications to us. What is VM set to gain from PHORM and what has PHORM got to hide.


thats true but sadly it still goes on console/HD war had them. SKY/VM has them activelty TROLLING.

Its hard to even say they are PR people more just a normal bloke paid to troll various forums.

Next we will be hearing fby them all ISP's will do it.
I have been given some answers to some of them questions but I am not going to post these until people start adhering to my requests and calm down abit.

Noone is going to answer any questions in an hostile environment and quite frankly I don't blame them.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:51   #745
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHarman View Post
Here is a new question. Being as EY has done a US privacy review and the other Privacy reviews are done to US standards, why is this being marketed to UK ISPs first when grabbing ISPs such as Time Warner Cable or Verizon FiOS or Cablevision or ComCast would get more subscribers.

So why is the initial introduction into the UK marked, not the US one where most internet innovation usually occurs first?
somehow I dont think we will get our questions answered he's scarpered without even doing his PR.

So much for helping us

RizzyKing WELL SAID.

ultimately thats what I want to know. WHY CANT PHORM and there PR(TROLLING) MAKE it clear easy permanent 1 off opt OUT (better make it opt in only).

WHy is it so hard for them to be open and honest.

Like I fear they will implement hidden code to kill our so called opt out cookie. Afterall doubt it would be hard for company of its background to implement a kill program forcing us all into PHORM.

The way I feel about this Its almost like a legalised hacking of your PC.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:58   #746
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle View Post
somehow I dont think we will get our questions answered he's scarpered without even doing his PR.



So much for helping us
Hello - are you taking in anything I have said? What do you expect when you post rude posts?

Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle
You can stick your PHORM where the sun dont shine.

You must be desperate for a job to work for bunch of crooks
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle
I dont think we will get our questions answered he's scarpered without even doing his PR
Also time factor - noone working office hours is going to post answering questions to nasty responses and replies on Friday at 7PM in the evening. I know I bloody wouldn't.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:59   #747
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Here is a new question. Being as EY has done a US privacy review and the other Privacy reviews are done to US standards, why is this being marketed to UK ISPs first when grabbing ISPs such as Time Warner Cable or Verizon FiOS or Cablevision or ComCast would get more subscribers.

So why is the initial introduction into the UK marked, not the US one where most internet innovation usually occurs first?
could it be that the US consumers are used to litigation, were as the UK consumers were less likely to involve the courts in the past.

infact its perhaps just bad timing for the likes Phorm and 'the new and improved Virgin Media brand' greed, due mainly to the UK banks and their greed forcing the UK populas to finally react to the unlawful charges.

the UK ISPs are perhaps in for a massive shock, if the millions of end users do start sending in the DPA 'removal of processing and export right'notices and start another simple online small claim, this time aimed squarely at the ISPs and Phorm ,instead of the banks.

after all the ISPs dont have anywere near the same cash reserves and End users have several problems with the ISPs already (unlimited,throttling,unfair non DD charges etc),so they might just bring it all up in one go now this Phorm has brought the fight to the consumers, who knows!
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:00   #748
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle View Post
The way I feel about this Its almost like a legalised hacking of your PC.
Yup, except its worse as its at the ISP level, and their a little harder to format c:/ in order to wipe clean.
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:00   #749
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Mick i appreciate what your trying to do and am sorry if i am hindering it. People are bound to start going from concern to anger on this issue as so far many of the answers have been well being polite not very adequate and amount to little more then half truth's. Getting blood from a stone would be easier at times or at least thats how it feels no solid answers and nothing from VM.

Thats another bone of contention for me VM what the hell are they doing is this the way cusotmers of VM can expect to be treated in future and if we are successful and stop this deal we will probably be down the same road again with a new company or an old one renamed and a slightly beeter approach.

As much as some real answers from phorm would be nice i would much prefer to have someone on behalf of VM here to answer questions and to put our side across to i have tried phoning them and got nothing but "i am not sure what your referring too" or "there really isn't anything to worry about it is being done for your benefit" both of whch just make my temper on this issue worse.

Here's a thought maybe the same 5% that are ok with this are the same 5% that hog all the bandwidth.
 
Old 07-03-2008, 20:10   #750
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Mick i appreciate what your trying to do and am sorry if i am hindering it. People are bound to start going from concern to anger on this issue
I understand about the anger part - I am not impressed with the system either but at the same time I cannot sit back and watch people come on here - and post aggressive posts and demand answers. Everyone is entitled to have their say but I cannot stand to see rude or aggressive posting(s).

Those who work in call centres will know that if any customer gets aggressive when they are trying to give them information or help - the rep can terminate the call and they are much within their rights to do that - The same goes for the reps trying to give information on these boards - We might not like what they are saying but getting angry and getting all hot and bothered will solve nothing - I am actually getting sick of repeating myself on this one, shouting the odds doesn't get us what we want.
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