The energy crisis

[Carth]

I think it's a bit silly to hit North Sea gas companies with a 'windfall' tax when around 50% of gas in the UK is imported.

There again I'm not a politician and know nothing about how these things work.

What I have seen over the past 25 years though, is a massive change in automatic machinery doing the work that used to be done by hand, which has driven up the demand and consumption of energy.

Rising population, and housing for them, also drives up demand which, IMO, is more than we can provide by solar and wind power.

Just the price of progress I guess

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Carth

What I have seen over the past 25 years though, is a massive change in automatic machinery doing the work that used to be done by hand

Such as? I'm struggling to think of any examples in the past 25 years.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Such as? I'm struggling to think of any examples in the past 25 years.

From that reply, I'm going to assume your whole working life has been spent at an office desk


edit:
Back in a couple of hours, off to watch live football stream . . . courtesy of energy dependent modem, router, computers instead of watching the game live

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Carth

From that reply, I'm going to assume your whole working life has been spent at an office desk

From that reply I'm going to assume you can't think of any examples either

Industrial use of energy in the UK has almost halved in the past 25 years. Transport is the only sector where it has grown significantly. See bottom of first page here.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...he_UK_2021.pdf

Originally Posted by Carth

Back in a couple of hours, off to watch live football stream . . . courtesy of energy dependent modem, router, computers instead of watching the game live

Which will probably use a lot less energy than you would driving to the game.

VAT is only 5%, so cutting it isnt going to make a huge difference.

How is Taxing North Seas Oil/Gas going to save me £200 a year

Originally Posted by Paul

How is Taxing North Seas Oil/Gas going to save me £200 a year

The tax would be used to pay the 5% VAT cut and expand who qualifies for state assistance with their energy bills.

Originally Posted by Damien

The tax would be used to pay the 5% VAT cut and expand who qualifies for state assistance with their energy bills.

So somewhat misleading then.
The VAT cut is already mentioned, I seriously doubt the "qualifies for state assistance" will include me.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

From that reply I'm going to assume you can't think of any examples either

Industrial use of energy in the UK has almost halved in the past 25 years. Transport is the only sector where it has grown significantly. See bottom of first page here.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...he_UK_2021.pdf

Well it looks like you and your stats know better than someone who worked in a factory for almost 25 years and actually saw the changes happening, although maybe I was simply in the one factory that changed from manual workforce to automated machines out of the thousands out there.

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Which will probably use a lot less energy than you would driving to the game.

My car runs on petrol, not gas/electric delivered through the national grid . . . although that's all changing isn't it with electric cars & the wonderful E Scooter craze

. . poor game but 4-0 and into the next round

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

Well it looks like you and your stats know better than someone who worked in a factory for almost 25 years and actually saw the changes happening, although maybe I was simply in the one factory that changed from manual workforce to automated machines out of the thousands out there.

The factories that mechanised remained. A lot of the rest probably closed down or downsized.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Paul

VAT is only 5%, so cutting it isnt going to make a huge difference.
:

It will make a huge difference to the Govt. 5% of a £1000 bill is £50, 5% of a £2000 bill is £100. Potentially an extra £50 off 28million households. =£1.4 billion extra tax. Nice. Plus of course the NI increases and freezing personal tax allowances. As long as they spend it wisely like good socialists..
(Didn't they promise to get rid of VAT on fuel as part of leaving the EU ? Yet another lie...)

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It will make a huge difference to the Govt. 5% of a £1000 bill is £50, 5% of a £2000 bill is £100. Potentially an extra £50 off 28million households. =£1.4 billion extra tax. Nice. Plus of course the NI increases and freezing personal tax allowances. As long as they spend it wisely like good socialists..
(Didn't they promise to get rid of VAT on fuel as part of leaving the EU ? Yet another lie...)

Your point is fair. But it is a promise they made and they should keep to that especially given the fuel price circumstances.

Originally Posted by Mr K

It will make a huge difference to the Govt. 5% of a £1000 bill is £50, 5% of a £2000 bill is £100. Potentially an extra £50 off 28million households. =£1.4 billion extra tax. Nice. Plus of course the NI increases and freezing personal tax allowances. As long as they spend it wisely like good socialists..
(Didn't they promise to get rid of VAT on fuel as part of leaving the EU ? Yet another lie...)

Thank you for the maths lesson.
You knew when posting, of course, that I was referring to households, not the govt coffers.

[Carth]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59957716

British Gas owner warns energy crisis to last two years

Soaring energy prices which threaten the living standards of millions could last up to two years, the boss of the UK's biggest energy supplier has said.

Chris O'Shea, chief executive of British Gas owner Centrica, said there was "no reason" to expect gas prices would come down "anytime soon".

Many countries see gas as an intermediate solution while they wean themselves off more carbon-intensive energy sources, such as oil and coal, creating an international dash for gas as the world economy wakes up after its Covid-related slumber.

"As we move towards net zero, gas is a big transition fuel," Mr O'Shea said.

"And so as you turn off coal fired power stations in other countries, there isn't an abundance of gas that you can just turn on quickly."

"We bring gas in from the United States, from Norway, from Europe, from Qatar, from other places. So we're not in a position to simply have the UK as an isolated energy market. We are part of a global market."

Germany are taking their Nuclear Power offline earlier than first stated, which won't help. Seems the push for zero emissions may lead to doubling the cost (if you can afford it) for what's left.

I wish we still had an open fire . . I could burn all the daily junk mail, cardboard boxes etc

[Halcyon]

So essentially we are going to all become poor....well most of the middle of the road people like me.
If you are wealthy then you've got nothing to worry about. You can afford the bills.
If you are poor then you get government incentives or pay very little if not get it free.


If like me you are not super wealthy but not poor then we get no help at all and are going to become the poor generation. Many jobs have no pay rises or if they do then it doesnt reflect inflation.
We are doomed.

[tweetiepooh]

It's always the middle that get it worst as we are the biggest sector. And often it's the lower end of the middle that really get it. Too "rich" to qualify for help, too "poor" to afford expensive changes.


But these figures are all relative. At one time owning a microwave put you in the top 10% of wealthiest world wide.