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Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:21   #61
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
There are experts on this forum who can comment on my words, but it seems to me that notwithstanding what actually went on at Melbourne airport, if you've had Covid twice, you're no less protected than you would have been with the double jab.
I believe that would actually grant him an exemption anyway?

But the problem is there are pictures of him attending public events without a mask the day after his claimed positive test. So there is a question of it that was actually a positive test or if he just thought screw and attended whilst positive which isn't a great look.
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:28   #62
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I believe that would actually grant him an exemption anyway?

But the problem is there are pictures of him attending public events without a mask the day after his claimed positive test. So there is a question of it that was actually a positive test or if he just thought screw and attended whilst positive which isn't a great look.
Agreed. The apparent arrogance of the man. He could consider the 4 days in that doss house as due punishment.
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Old 10-01-2022, 13:22   #63
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post
There is human rights and then there is being a total plonker.
The world does not revolve around him and he should be made to comply just like anyone else.


Fair enough if he chooses a vaccine or not but then he should be prepared for the consequences. He cant go wherever he wants and therfore put others at risk.
The old chestnut that it is only the unvaccinated pose a threat of transmission. Have to clarify this yet again. There is no distinction between vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Both can catch Covid and both pose a risk of transmission.
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Old 10-01-2022, 13:30   #64
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
The old chestnut that it is only the unvaccinated pose a threat of transmission. Have to clarify this yet again. There is no distinction between vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Both can catch Covid and both pose a risk of transmission.
I agree Mick, but people argue that the risk of vaccinated people transmitting it to others is reduced . . . as evidenced by the 141,172 new cases reported yesterday

I wonder who's giving it to them?
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Old 10-01-2022, 13:55   #65
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

What Carth said ^
It doesnt stop it, but it reduces the risk.
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:07   #66
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post
What Carth said ^
It doesnt stop it, but it reduces the risk.
My post was a little sarcastic on how much it does reduce the risk considering an average of 85,000 new cases daily and around 65% of the population having at least one jab and over 80% having had 2 jabs

Unless of course 90% of the new cases are Covid being passed on by the unvaccinated among us . . . any stats for that anywhere?
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:14   #67
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
My post was a little sarcastic on how much it does reduce the risk considering an average of 85,000 new cases daily and around 65% of the population having at least one jab and over 80% having had 2 jabs
We're talking about Omnicron though which seems to have the strongest vaccine evading ability we've seen since the original pandemic. We saw a much stronger drop-off in COVID numbers after the initial vaccine rollouts.

Vaccines obviously reduce (not eliminate) the chance of spreading COVID because it reduces the chances of you getting it at the very least. Fewer people catching COVID means fewer people with the ability to spread COVID. If the vaccine reduces how long it takes to recover that also reduces the time in which you're infectious.

It's all academic though because the Australian Health Authorities believe it does reduce the risk and has taken the decision to reflect that in their border controls. It doesn't really matter if a professional tennis player thinks they know better than them.

Last edited by Damien; 10-01-2022 at 14:18.
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:18   #68
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
We're talking about Omnicron though which seems to have the strongest vaccine evading ability we've seen since the original pandemic. We saw a much stronger drop-off in COVID numbers after the initial vaccine rollouts.

Vaccines obviously reduce (not eliminate) the chance of spreading COVID because it reduces the chances of you getting it at the very least. Fewer people catching COVID means fewer people with the ability to spread COVID. If the vaccine reduces how long it takes to recover that also reduces the time in which you're infectious.
Only 141,172 new cases reported yesterday
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:24   #69
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Only 141,172 new cases reported yesterday
Yes but as I said we already know that Omicron has a significant ability to evade the vaccine. The strain against which the vaccine was developed had a significant drop-off in cases after the rollout.

The studies do show this as well: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/2315...mission-delta/

That study is actually about people who are already infected though.

We have real data now given it's been a year that vaccines can stop you catching COVID: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...uk/october2021

Quote:
Vaccination significantly reduced the risk of people testing positive during both the Alpha-dominant period and the Delta-dominant period.
That study does show Delta was reduced from Alpha and no doubt Omicron will be less than that given the case numbers but it is unlikely to be 0%.

Last edited by Damien; 10-01-2022 at 14:31.
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:32   #70
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Yes but as I said we already know that Omicron has a significant ability to evade the vaccine. The strain against which the vaccine was developed had a significant drop-off in cases after the rollout.

The studies do show this as well: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/2315...mission-delta/
So what we're looking at, in the case of Djokovic (and others), is that having a jab doesn't help much?
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:39   #71
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
So what we're looking at, in the case of Djokovic (and others), is that having a jab doesn't help much?
We don't know precisely how much it helps. The vaccine we have now almost certainly helps less than it did against Delta and Alpha but given what we know about those two strains it's probably less effective rather than not effective. The only thing they seem sure of at the moment, which we're seeing in the fact ICU numbers are not going up anywhere near as much as cases, is that they at least are still holding up very well against serious illness.

So you could argue that whatever reduction in transmission afforded by the vaccine against Omnicom is not worth the restrictive border control rules. I think international travel should be loosened now. If people have had the vaccines that prevent serious illness then we need to get on with life rather than worry about stopping a virus that's here to say.

But I, you and Djokovic don't get to decide this. I went to Europe recently and I obeyed the rules of the country I visited and then the rules to come back (flow test to depart, PCR when I came back). I didn't turn up at the EU border and tell them to stuff their vaccine, stuff their tests and to let me in. Then again I haven't won 20 grand slams.......(yet)
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:46   #72
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
So what we're looking at, in the case of Djokovic (and others), is that having a jab doesn't help much?
It helps quite a bit…

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

Quote:
Its latest report, published on 31 December, showed that the proportion of patients admitted to critical care in December 2021 with confirmed covid-19 who were unvaccinated was 61%. This proportion had previously fallen from 75% in May 2021 to 47% in October 2021—consistent with the decreasing proportion of the general population who were unvaccinated—before rising again in December 2021.

The proportion of unvaccinated patients in intensive care varied by English region, with the highest rates recorded in London (66%), the south west, and the north west. Being unvaccinated was classed as a person having no record of receiving any vaccination or having had a first dose administered within 14 days of receiving a positive covid test, and only 1.9% of the “unvaccinated” group had received a first dose within that period.
Quote:
Further analysis by the agency has concluded that unvaccinated adults are as much as eight times more likely to be admitted to hospital than those who have been vaccinated and that booster doses are 88% effective at preventing hospital admission.
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Old 10-01-2022, 14:47   #73
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
So what we're looking at, in the case of Djokovic (and others), is that having a jab doesn't help much?
One thing that is is now know is that 3 jabs protects you until you catch the rona
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Old 10-01-2022, 15:10   #74
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
It's purely down to self protection. The vaccines only reduce the potential for serious illness and hospitalisation.

If you don't want the vaccine then the only person you are potentially hurting is yourself.

It is claimed that vaccination reduces transmission but there is no data about that in regards to omicron, and considering the high level of vaccination in the UK and the subsequent record levels of infection I would argue transmission levels are not reduced or not by very much.

If the vaccine was a secure vaccine that stopped infection, transmission and illness - then you might have more solid ground to persuade people to take the vaccine but at the moment if you're a fit, not over weight, young-ish person with no other health issues not wanting to take the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable position to take.
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Old 10-01-2022, 15:19   #75
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Re: Novak Djokovic tries to go to Oz

I rather enjoyed Andy Murray’s response to Farage on Twitter.
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