Britain outside the EU

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You ask a very fair question. We had the power not to be able to implement rules set by Brussels whenever we were able to negotiate a derogation/opt-out. In the case of the WTD, which switched from a vetoable decision to a Health & Safety measure (qualified majority) we were able to negotiate opt-outs. I remind that the WTD was one of France's pet project to bring everyone down to their ridiculous working practices.

But, and this is the big BUT, the path toward federalisation is/was the big worry for me - the EU Parliament would trump ours. The Tories would always have vetoed this, but the creeping powers being sought by the Commission would have ultimately led to a trade-off with the UK government. For example, the UK might have agreed to a particular competence to be given to the Commission in exchange for meaningful changes to the CAP (Blair got such a commitment which France then frustrated); or in exchange for a bigger rebate (ha ha).

again, genuine question, It strikes me had we acted a bit more 'french' in our dealings with Brussels we may have been able to achieve/get more?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

again, genuine question, It strikes me had we acted a bit more 'french' in our dealings with Brussels we may have been able to achieve/get more?

Also an interesting proposition. But I feel that would have been an impossibility. As I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.
France's psychology is influenced by their position as a founding member and their past experiences with Germany.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Also an interesting proposition. But I feel that would have been an impossibility. As I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.
France's psychology is influenced by their position as a founding member and their past experiences with Germany.

I think this is where we will differ, i believe that the country is able to pivot and change its thinking as required.

I think our time in the EU perhaps could have gained us even better results (subjective) had our own political parties not been so lacklustre in their dealings with Brussels

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I think this is where we will differ, i believe that the country is able to pivot and change its thinking as required.

I think our time in the EU perhaps could have gained us even better results (subjective) had our own political parties not been so lacklustre in their dealings with Brussels

That's a different point from your proposition. And I agree.

Btw, I think that Thatcher had the best approach to the EU.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Btw, I think that Thatcher had the best approach to the EU.

Good discussion peeps.

Talking of Lady T. Who remembers this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0d033a5757f2e

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Good discussion peeps.

Talking of Lady T. Who remembers this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0d033a5757f2e

You'll note that there was no EU flag. It was the "European Communities" then aka the Common Market.

Not one bit like the power grabbing EU of today.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's a different point from your proposition. And I agree.

Btw, I think that Thatcher had the best approach to the EU.

So, this to me reads that our inaction led the EU to be what it is today? The question begs is to why were we not more forceful in our attempts to shape its future state

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, this to me reads that our inaction led the EU to be what it is today? The question begs is to why were we not more forceful in our attempts to shape its future state

That's too much of a stretch, imo.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's too much of a stretch, imo.

You're right, we're partially responsible. But, why didn't we do all that we could of done ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So, this to me reads that our inaction led the EU to be what it is today? The question begs is to why were we not more forceful in our attempts to shape its future state

From what a friend has told me, the UK was very influential in shaping EU legislation. Its diplomatic influence there was world class thanks to its Commonwealth history and was much admired in the EU and its pragmatism is much missed.

EU legislation such as Solvency II* which Johnson has criticised and wants to amend (and the EU is separately amending) was led by the UK and shaped by our insurance expertise.

* Determines the riskiness of assets that insurance companies can invest insurance premiums in

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You're right, we're partially responsible. But, why didn't we do all that we could of done ?

I suspect that only the benefit of hindsight could lead to your train of thought.

The 1992 Maastricht Treaty raised eyebrows in the UK and the die was cast at the 2007 Lisbon Treaty when significant Euroscepticism arose. The rest we know. France reneged on the promise given to Blair that the CAP would be reformed.

So it's all Blair's fault.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I suspect that only the benefit of hindsight could lead to your train of thought.

The 1992 Maastricht Treaty raised eyebrows in the UK and the die was cast at the 2007 Lisbon Treaty when significant Euroscepticism arose. The rest we know. France reneged on the promise given to Blair that the CAP would be reformed.

So it's all Blair's fault.

Die wasn't cast at all in 2007, no one gave a toss about Europe back then

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I suspect that only the benefit of hindsight could lead to your train of thought.

The 1992 Maastricht Treaty raised eyebrows in the UK and the die was cast at the 2007 Lisbon Treaty when significant Euroscepticism arose. The rest we know. France reneged on the promise given to Blair that the CAP would be reformed.

So it's all Blair's fault.

There should have been a referendum on both treaty's.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Die wasn't cast at all in 2007, no one gave a toss about Europe back then

I don't think that's true. The immigration rumblings were in play due to the Poles influencing the workforce wages.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

I see that Javid & Sunak are on manoeuvres having resigned from the Cabinet.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't think that's true. The immigration rumblings were in play due to the Poles influencing the workforce wages.
.

I know, I remember it well but it didn't resonate until the referendum was announced, it barely made the top ten of issues on the doorstep until 2012