Brexit (Old)

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

A TV programme is probably not the best representative sample of EU migrants. You certainly can't use it to declare it a 'fallacy' that 'enough contribute'.

6,000 from just ONE very specific group in ONE town, does suggest a wider true representation. They all had OVERNIGHT to be supplied with houses, benefits, interpreters, health care, etc. That had to be funded by MORE borrowing. Easy to flatter an economy by funding it from borrowing. Same with normal household lifestyles. You can have a lovely lifestyle until you have to start paying the debts off or can't borrow more.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d love you to source where I “openly admit” your claim in the first sentence.

Post 3664.

it’s not an effective use of my time to explain when I’m quoting you, quoting ministers, quoting prominent leavers, quoting other posters, speaking from my own perspective or a general pro Brexit perspective

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Post 3664.

That’s a comment on your inability to understand my posts. Ironically, you failed to understand it!

Nobody else, on either side of the debate, appears to have a problem.

Once again I note you have only quoted one part of my post, selectively omitting the rest which I presume to be inconvenient. Once again playing the man and not the ball.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

6,000 from just ONE very specific group in ONE town, does suggest a wider true representation. They all had OVERNIGHT to be supplied with houses, benefits, interpreters, health care, etc. That had to be funded by MORE borrowing. Easy to flatter an economy by funding it from borrowing. Same with normal household lifestyles. You can have a lovely lifestyle until you have to start paying the debts off or can't borrow more.

How on earth can a one-off group of people in one city of 263,400 people be deemed representative of the millions of immigrants in this country?
And, claiming benefits is not easy! New EU migrants who arrive in the UK cannot claim any benefits until they have started work here.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

If the immigrant can’t speak English how are they beating unemployed English people into the jobs?

I believe that is a question you should be asking the employers

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's obviously a lie. There are no economic projections in which we're richer after Brexit.

So why isn't there express outrage at a lie when there was about a suggestion?

Remainers being selective about things?

Originally Posted by pip08456

So why isn't there express outrage at a lie when there was about a suggestion?

Remainers being selective about things?

I think you'll find many Remainers think May's deal is awful. Also it's wasn't as prominent a lie as the one on the bus but in the end there are so many lies it's hard to muster the outrage over every single one.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

That’s a comment on your inability to understand my posts. Ironically, you failed to understand it!

I understand you and your

it’s not an effective use of my time

arrogance perfectly.

Once again I note you have only quoted one part of my post, selectively omitting the rest which.

because, like much of what you post it was either, irrelevant, uninteresting, incoherent, inconsequential....delete as appropriate.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think you'll find many Remainers think May's deal is awful. Also it's wasn't as prominent a lie as the one on the bus but in the end there are so many lies it's hard to muster the outrage over every single one.

The problem is with so many lies being told in the last 2 plus years any trust people did have in politicians has been completely eroded now.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I understand you and your arrogance perfectly.

because, like much of what you post it was either, irrelevant, uninteresting, incoherent, inconsequential....delete as appropriate.

So you have no interest in engaging with any discussion? Feel free to stop selectively quoting me then.

I can engage with constructive posters instead.

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Carth

I believe that is a question you should be asking the employers

I think it's much more likely that most EU immigrants can speak English adequately. There's no rational reason for an employer, a capitalist entity, to employ someone absolutely unsuitable for the role when our own 3 million unemployed are chomping at the bit to get off the sofa and into the workforce.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

I think it's much more likely that most EU immigrants can speak English adequately. There's no rational reason for an employer, a capitalist entity, to employ someone absolutely unsuitable for the role when our own 3 million unemployed are chomping at the bit to get off the sofa and into the workforce.

Yes I guess they can, but sadly I've experienced those who can't . . working in the UK

[Gavin78]

It's certain areas of the job industry that have been swamped with none english workers. Taxi companies and manufacturing as an example. It's about having those that can contribute to society that really count E.g Dr's and Nurses which are much harder to get.

I know working for the NHS especially in my department there is a high number of Asian patients with Renal failure. This is caused by the general life style of the culture not to mention a large portion of these can't speak english.

As a result of this and the NHS trying to save money they employ staff that can speak the language rather than pay for interpreters which I might add in 2016 my local NHS spent over 50k in 2 months using these.

This is not to mention the 50k it costs per year per patient for treatment.

As for a companies doing business after brexit for a no deal well it's totally out of my area of expertise but the failure here is that nobody has done anything to ensure that something has been set up for them. because we have a PM who is a remain voter with her own Agenda not the voters Agenda.

The intention from the outset of her taking control was to ensure leave never happend despite the crap slogan she used at the start of her taking over

[jfman]

Asians with medical conditions.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by jfman

Asians with medical conditions.

You've lost me what is the purpose of that?

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

If the immigrant can’t speak English how are they beating unemployed English people into the jobs?

Some speak English and some don't. Not all jobs require English to be spoken, particularly as whole workforces will be speaking a foreign language. Many employers won't be bothered about language, they are more concerned about getting cheap labour (which often undercuts the wage of UK residents).

Wage rates are depressed, meaning that to compete others have to agree to a low wage (prompting in work benefit claims) or remain unemployed. Either way, this means more Government expenditure on benefits.

---------- Post added at 03:00 ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Massive generalisations going on there. Why not just do away with the welfare state as it’s obviously open to systematic abuse from English people too. Imagine having the audacity to pay tax and expect an NHS hospital to help deliver your baby.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Regarding social housing I’m sure we used to have plenty but something happened along the way...

A lot won't be paying tax or NI, either because the personal allowances have been substantially increased or because they only need to work over 16 hours a week to get round the no Jobseekers Allowance rule as soon as they arrive here.

Aside from the financial aspect, these people are putting a strain on hospitals, schools etc.

---------- Post added at 03:09 ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Even if those people are vital Drs, nurses and carers we don't have enough of for our ageing population ?

Some immigration is desirable, it's the fact that anyone who cared to come here could do so and we were powerless to stop them. Under a hard Brexit or Mays deal we will be able to control the quantity and quality of immigrants we allow in.

I think that the problems caused by EU migrants was a major reason why a sizeable number of people voted to leave.

I do hope that the Government will have the sense to let anyone in on the proviso that it is not necessarily a permanent arrangement. Over the next decade millions of jobs will be lost to automation and we will have enough of a problem dealing with this without the extra burden of people who become surplus to requirements from overseas.