Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by tarka

I apologise if this has already been posted, I've been trying to keep up with this thread but with so many posts it's been a bit difficult!

I am sure most of you will have already seen the legal analysis by out-law.com (run by law firm Pinsent Masons) which Phorm are praising in their blog(http://www.out-law.com/default.aspx?page=9090). And to quote Phorm... "The article makes the important distinction between the letter and spirit of the law". Well... you could 'imply' (don't phorm just love that word? ) a lot from that statement (like phorm are admitting that it is illegal?).

snip detail

Regards...

T

Ive put the gist of this on BT Beta forums and emailed to Emma Sanderson for comment.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by OF1975

Very true but you made a nice post collating all the suggestions into one nice and neat post. I would make the suggestion of adding writing to liberty to the list but given previous information that it takes them up to 8 weeks to respond and the fact I have yet to receive any response from them to my letter sent in march it may be a somewhat futile suggestion.

Thank you. If anyone at any time wishes to update the list, please feel free to do so. I will not feel sleighted or aggrieved in any way and it is best to keep the list current.

A comprehensive, up-to-date list seems to me to be important so that we don't 'forget' any good ideas or contacts and, as we reach a wider audience, it should help make it easier for new people to get up to speed and onside without wading through the whole thread.

[OF1975]

You are welcome kursk and I think its a great idea and very useful for new members and the newly inphormed.

I did spot this over on the BT forum too:

P imping your data
H ijacking your clickstream
O bfuscating the issues when answering questions
R ipa breaking
M assively unwanted, unneeded and unacceptable intrusion into our privacy.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Thank you. If anyone at any time wishes to update the list, please feel free to do so. I will not feel sleighted or aggrieved in any way and it is best to keep the list current.

A comprehesive, up-to-date list seems to me to be important so that we don't 'forget' any good ideas or contacts and, as we reach a wider audience, it should help make it easier for new people to get up to speed and onside without wading through the whole thread.

Perhaps request that the post be made a sticky in a (locked) thread of its own, to make it more visible? Thread title to be decided?

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Perhaps request that the post be made a sticky in a (locked) thread of its own, to make it more visible? Thread title to be decided?

Excellent idea. Really excellent idea. Any comments from the mods?

[Florence]

Well VM have also hit the timesonline with their reduced churn they leanrt to cook the books also.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...null&offset=24

Then he puts it simply: “We have a compelling brand — Virgin — that is absolutely consumer-focused. We can help people navigate through the digital complexity.”

Are we all daft or something does he not think VM customers are digital literate?

Berkett counters that you can’t invest in selling heavily until you have reduced churn to a minimum. “In a subscription business, if you don’t keep customers, having an amazing sales team is a waste of time. What you need is customers who will become advocates. That is crucial.”

What is the churn now then I left so that is one more that it would have been

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by OF1975

Excellent idea. Really excellent idea. Any comments from the mods?

I'll PM one to request it, also that people can PM a mod to add links when discovered..

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

I'll PM one to request it, also that people can PM a mod to add links when discovered..

Cool deal. Nice way to end a long day. Heading to bed here shortly.

[goblin]

Well I've decided I should after following this thread over the last couple of weeks say 'Hi' and thanks to all those who are doing their upmost to protect our online freedom, and keep us free to choose whether to give up our online security or not.

A couple of points however, I think you're putting too much faith in that 80\20 thinking guy, as I seem to recall he started out here saying how there was an opportunity for us all to get along, for Phorm to coexist and all live in some advertising utopia. PIA or no PIA, I can't help thinking that he's going to report that there's room for all concerned providing there's an opt-in clause of course. He seems to have missed the bit about it being illegal and that there may not infact be a utopia to live in. But like everyone else, I shall await the arrival of the PIA with interest.

With a view to raising awareness of phorm accross other forums etc. How about creating some kind of mini-banner or signature banner: http://browse.deviantart.com/customi...ns/sigbanners/ that we can all download, then insert into our various forum signatures both here and elsewhere, they can also be used in emails too I believe. Perhaps a url to a short succinct list of facts could be embeded within it, so that anyone clicking it gets just that, the facts. I can't help thinking you guys are missing a trick here, as there are people out there that would download and display such a thing, just because it's popular to do so. So why not use such to your advantage.

As regards extra pulicity, perhaps you should start a mini-forum on somewhere like: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.html?f=67 as its fronted by a journalist\tv host he likes publicity and has a lot of dedicated fans who would be willing to spread the word. There's alot of people on there just itching to right a wrong by virginmedia and to assert their rights. Perhaps you could use that to further the cause?

There are also alot of people over there seeking deals from virginmedia and being offered advice on how to go about such dealings. Perhaps they wouldn't be so willing to take out short-term contracts when they realise they stand to be profiled and spammed throughout their whole surfing experience.

It seems to be the short-term contracts that virginmedia are most interested in, they seem to believe that once they have you you will be happy to have a ring stuck through your nose and they'll lead you where they want you to go. As a longstanding customer of some 10+ years, I can say that in my own case. That's not going to happen, if virginmedia decide they will remove my choice, I shall make one by removing myself from their customer base and make way for someone who will stop by for 12months and then chase the next good deal with three, orange or whoever gives them the best price on broadband. If virginmedia want to play fast and loose with our loyalty then they deserve everything they get.

Anyway, I shall leave those thoughts with you. I have written a few letters to various people like everyone else, I shall in the future be writing to virginmedia and stopping them from sharing my information with any other companies. If they decide they want to betray the trust of longstanding customers, I shall leave them to their fate.

[OldBear]

Originally Posted by goblin

<huge snip>

With a view to raising awareness of phorm accross other forums etc. How about creating some kind of mini-banner or signature banner: http://browse.deviantart.com/customi...ns/sigbanners/ that we can all download, then insert into our various forum signatures both here and elsewhere, they can also be used in emails too I believe. Perhaps a url to a short succinct list of facts could be embeded within it, so that anyone clicking it gets just that, the facts. I can't help thinking you guys are missing a trick here, as there are people out there that would download and display such a thing, just because it's popular to do so. So why not use such to your advantage.

Hi goblin, thanks for the thoughts.

There are already loads of banners, avatars, etc, which are anti-phorm available here: http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?384

As regards extra pulicity, perhaps you should start a mini-forum on somewhere like: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.html?f=67 as its fronted by a journalist\tv host he likes publicity and has a lot of dedicated fans who would be willing to spread the word. There's alot of people on there just itching to right a wrong by virginmedia and to assert their rights. Perhaps you could use that to further the cause?<huge snip>

I (and a few others) have already tried getting this message to the posters over there. Unfortunately, most of the posts disappear off the front pages faster than you can say, "This isn't saving me cash, I couldn't be less interested".

Nice idea, but most people over there don't seem to be interested.

OB

[goblin]

Originally Posted by OldBear

Hi goblin, thanks for the thoughts.

There are already loads of banners, avatars, etc, which are anti-phorm available here: http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?384

Serves me right for being late to the party and not reading everything doesn't it I see there's quite a choice. Thanks, I shall be using a few of those.

I (and a few others) have already tried getting this message to the posters over there. Unfortunately, most of the posts disappear off the front pages faster than you can say, "This isn't saving me cash, I couldn't be less interested".

Nice idea, but most people over there don't seem to be interested.

OB

Have you tried posting to get the attention of the mods, or Martin Lewis himself. He's keen for publicity apparantly, as reported on various other forums so he may pick up the mantle and run with it. I don't think it's a case of various people not being interested, more a case of them not understanding the technicalities or the consequences of it.

All that's getting through to them is that it's another piece of anti-spyware and privacy protection. Of which there are loads already out there, they won't necessarily grasp that Phorm see their data before they see it appear on the screen and alter it accordingly, unless it's put accross as though you were talking in a manner similar to that you would use to speak to a 3 year old. Well that's my opinion anyway

Once again, thanks for the links to the signatures.

[mark777]

Originally Posted by goblin

{snip}
Have you tried posting to get the attention of the mods, or Martin Lewis himself. He's keen for publicity apparantly, as reported on various other forums so he may pick up the mantle and run with it. I don't think it's a case of various people not being interested, more a case of them not understanding the technicalities or the consequences of it.

All that's getting through to them is that it's another piece of anti-spyware and privacy protection. Of which there are loads already out there, they won't necessarily grasp that Phorm see their data before they see it appear on the screen and alter it accordingly, unless it's put accross as though you were talking in a manner similar to that you would use to speak to a 3 year old. Well that's my opinion anyway

Once again, thanks for the links to the signatures.

I think we ought to do something there. There are huge threads with lots of views. It would take a number of us to go over and keep the thread near the top.

How about something like "BT, Virgin Media and Talk-talk will cost you more than money" ? maybe start from the angle that you will be snooped on, but they are not offering anything in return, no discounts etc., just to get the discussion going. Education later.

If a few people are willing to help keep the thread current, i'll start one up.

OB this is not just a

Originally Posted by OldBear

a "privacy revolution"

this is an evolution of the internet. I mean... have you EVER seen a forum thread go on, with so much content and yes, with lively debate at times, but clearly with one common aim and shared belief within the contributors?

This is a revolution indeed!

Hank

[OldBear]

Originally Posted by goblin

<humungous snip>
Have you tried posting to get the attention of the mods, or Martin Lewis himself. He's keen for publicity apparantly, as reported on various other forums so he may pick up the mantle and run with it. I don't think it's a case of various people not being interested, more a case of them not understanding the technicalities or the consequences of it.

Sorry, goblin, I missed the bit about Martin being a bit of an attention grabber in your first post, and you're absolutely correct, he is, and because of that, what you say above is an excellent idea.

Consider me on it.

OB

btw @ Kursk, you're right, mate; credit where credit's due. Thanks to all who provided all the info, but also to you for bringing together a great list.

I also support this list as a sticky post.

Originally Posted by OldBear

I also support this list as a sticky post.

And as he's seconded that, I'll third it

Mod types -can we have it stickied please?

Hank