Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[SelfProtection]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Why should I move on ? .. I haven't finished what I want to achieve where I am. Why is that provocative ?

.. and in any context - what is wrong with 'provocative' ? It can be very stimulating to those who are able and willing to be challenged.

D_A

I never have managed to grasp the logic of trying to go up a "One way Street"!

[Dephormation]

Hurrah. Congratulations everyone. Chalk one up to us; another week of freedom from mass surveillance.



PS. Hello Gav, Ian, Emma, and Sir Mick.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Then sue me. I'm sure you can afford to, despite your protestations to the contrary.

D_A

Actually no I can't afford to which part of I have no money do you fail to understand? However, if I do see one more libelous statement from you about me (as the one I have quoted above illustrates) I will be forced to ask the CableForum owner to ban you from the site on the grounds that you are being libelous.

Alexander Hanff

[Portly_Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Hurrah. Congratulations everyone. Chalk one up to us; another week of freedom from mass surveillance.



PS. Hello Gav, Ian, Emma, and Sir Mick.

And another end of week Phorm share price rise on the basis of imminent trials!

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

And another end of week Phorm share price rise on the basis of imminent trials!

Yes but each time it rises, it rises less, and each time it falls, it falls more

Next week expect the price to hit another record low.

Alexander Hanff

[Raistlin]

I'm going to remind people that this thread is here for the discussion of Phorm and not for people to engage in mud-slinging, baiting, and generally provoking other people.

By all means continue to challenge the beliefs of people that you don't agree with, but don't start attacking the people themselves.

For the record, whether or not the comments of any one person (or group of persons) are libelous is entirely off-topic for this debate. As is the subject of the personal finances of any Member or group of Members.

[oblonsky]

Originally Posted by Rob M

As is the subject of the personal finances of any Member or Members.

I take it the second member was accidental, however it does make for humerous reading if your mind follows a certain path.

[fidbod]

Bonsoir everyone,

I am one of the relatively quiet posters affliated to the antiphorm movement.

A plea!!

Devils Advocate please continue posting your opinion - everyone else please challenge his views

BUT no ad hominem attacks from either side or "playground style" gainsaying of each other please!

For me the logical end goal is to legislate Phorm and companies with similar intentions out of existence. However we will only achieve that through reasoned debate. Lets get some practice in with DA - who knows, we may even convert him/her.

[Portly_Giraffe]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Yes but each time it rises, it rises less, and each time it falls, it falls more

Next week expect the price to hit another record low.

Alexander Hanff

Looking at this week's trades on iii, there appear to have been several Buys above the Ask Price for relatively small blocks. For example, today at 09:42:40, iii is showing a Buy of 500 shares at 11.00 against an Ask Price of 10.75.

My understanding of how share trading works dates from the late 1980s and is now probably a bit rusty and may not apply to AIM. However, I thought that as long as a trade was within Size then it would take place within Spread. And I would have thought that 500 shares would be within Size for PHRM.L.

Can anyone here enlighten me?

[vicz]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Yes but each time it rises, it rises less, and each time it falls, it falls more

Next week expect the price to hit another record low.

Alexander Hanff

Yes today about 7000 shares sold, about 1000 bought, yet price goes up 10% ?

Not a good indication of what's really going on methinks.

[D_Advocate]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Back in Post 9575, Oblonsky summarised the argument:

Beyond the question of what may or may not have been or be lawful, D_Advocate's position, and Oblonsky's (which I would imagine is shared by most of the posters here)

Naturally - this is an anti-Phorm thread. Of course they will endorse his position.

All published surveys so far indicate that most people will take an anti-Phorm/Webwise position once they know what is going on.

Published surveys of the majority of those who are likely to be effected ? 'Most people' is an assumption and not qualified or quantified.
Until (and if) Webwise does go public (as in a full service), you cannot predict how the majority will respond. Many may not understand (the majority I think), many may not care, many may think it is a benefit (assumptions on my part).

The burden of the argument is therefore on those supporting Webwise and similar schemes to show that people will welcome them. So far no evidence has been presented to support this. Perhaps that evidence should be presented before this dialogue continues.

The burden of argument (by which I assume you mean proof) is not, and cannot be upon those who support Webwise (which I haven't said I do - I just said I may) because there is not yet enough information or facts with regard to how the majority of those effected will react. Whether they will welcome it or not is yet to be tested, because your aforementioned surveys have very little substance because of the small cross-sections and demographics used.

Any data or statistics can be manipulated towards your own ends.

D_A

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Looking at this week's trades on iii, there appear to have been several Buys above the Ask Price for relatively small blocks. For example, today at 09:42:40, iii is showing a Buy of 500 shares at 11.00 against an Ask Price of 10.75.

My understanding of how share trading works dates from the late 1980s and is now probably a bit rusty and may not apply to AIM. However, I thought that as long as a trade was within Size then it would take place within Spread. And I would have thought that 500 shares would be within Size for PHRM.L.

Can anyone here enlighten me?

I had a mystery message from my smoking man recently stating that Kent has been hopping mad about the share price and also that he apparantly has ways of making it jump when it has suffered a significant decline (which seems to tally with what we have seen regarding strange buys at significantly higher than the Ask Price). But as always, anything from my smoking man should be treated as speculation as the nature of the communications makes it impossible to confirm them as fact or not.

Alexander Hanff

[fidbod]

@ Devils Advocate.

One of your previous posts stated you would be concerned if it could be shown that the Phorm system made personally identifiable information (PII) available. I would argue that Phorm also increases your security risk significantly. I am interested in your thoughts on the following thought experiment.

1. The cookie that Phorm set on your PC contains a unique identifier (UID)

2. Your PC's IP address can be read from the HTML requests generated when browsing.

3. Malicous Javascript code on a website can "read" the Phorm UID from your machine.

As a malicous person I now have two pieces of information unique to your PC. That I can use to target you.

You could argue for a long time whether these two bits of information are PII and I will not offer judgement on that. However it is now much easier for me to target your PC to extract further infomation.

thoughts?

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Any data or statistics can be manipulated towards your own ends.

D_A

Very much so. Both BT and Phorm (Phorm in one of their web chats) both claimed to have conducted a survey in which the results said the customers actively want Webwise. Nobody has seen the results outside of these companies of course, and nobody remembers being asked a specific survey on Webwise. It is amusing that these polls are the only real flags that the companies wave around to tell us we are begging for it.

I'd personally believe it if Phorm were brave enough to set-up their own ISP and offer free ADSL on the condition of having targetted ads.- If we'd want their particular system, surely we'd all flock in droves.

[D_Advocate]

Originally Posted by SelfProtection

I never have managed to grasp the logic of trying to go up a "One way Street"!

In a word: non-conPhormation.

D_A