The state benefits system mega-thread.

Pierre you seem to think were asking to just be handed cash with no questions like a lot of the public seem to also think. You highlight well the misinterpretation many have because not a single genuine claimant has a problem with a properly conducted assessment by a trained medical professional. Were not getting that with atos they have their own training scheme that takes medical secretary's as well as many others not qualified and gives them the power to make a decision beyond their ability that has a lasting and damaging affect on people.

We would also like the DWP to stop lying about imposing targets when they do and atos has been caught on camera more then once insisting they have targets they must meet.

[weenie]

Originally Posted by Gary L

And good luck. you'll need it.

To right Gary
As I have stated before I know someone who was assessed and their crohns really flared up because of the stress they induced on them. They landed in hospital because of a flare up. This person needs B12 injection every 10 weeks because they had a bowel resection as her body cannot absorb B12 through food intake they also suffer increased vulnerability to infections...
They also have thinning and weakening of the bones (osteopenia and osteoporosis) this was because of long term use of steroids through this really horrid illness, she appealed and won but it was at the cost of her health as while in hospital they put her on a thing called the elemental diet to rest her bowel but it took 4 weeks in hospital before she was discharged through the stress all this had caused at the hands of the ATOS doctor and his decision. This doctor spent all but 30 minutes with them and assessed them fit for work... despite their specialist and own doctor disagreeing with him how he came up with that decision is really beyond me and something I will never understand.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Pierre you seem to think were asking to just be handed cash with no questions like a lot of the public seem to also think.

Not at all. But some on here, and the quoted bit by Gary is a prime example, are using extreme examples to demonise the need to means test for these benefits

You highlight well the misinterpretation many have because not a single genuine claimant has a problem with a properly conducted assessment by a trained medical professional. Were not getting that with atos they have their own training scheme that takes medical secretary's as well as many others not qualified and gives them the power to make a decision beyond their ability that has a lasting and damaging affect on people.

We would also like the DWP to stop lying about imposing targets when they do and atos has been caught on camera more then once insisting they have targets they must meet.

I am in a complete agreement, the testing, assessing, has to be undertaken by competent qualified people.

if this isn't the case, trust me, I'd march alongside you.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not at all. But some on here, and the quoted bit by Gary is a prime example, are using extreme examples to demonise the need to means test for these benefits




I am in a complete agreement, the testing, assessing, has to be undertaken by competent qualified people.

if this isn't the case, trust me, I'd march alongside you.

The problems arise when a decision is made that the client disagrees with .How many times has a doctors competency been called into question when a patient disagrees with a diagnosis .I don't think it would make any difference who did the assessments ,if the patient disagrees with it they will be rubbish and incompetent ,if the patient gets their own way then all will be well

So Marty you think someone with terminal cancer couple of months left to live is fit for work because atos have how about an elderly woman riddled with arthritis who refused to climb a set of stairs having her benefit cut because atos labelled her "uncooperative" and there are many more examples feel free to Google. Pierre most assessors at atos are not doctors never have been some only have whatever medical experience the atos training program gives them which is very little as the training program is more concerned about filling In the forms correctly dispatches showed that.

As it is now the work capability assessment is not fit for purpose and it hasn't been for quite sometime not only my opinion but also the opinion of the guy who helped originally create it. Also why shouldn't extreme examples be used by the claimant side the government and media do it all the time to "highlight" the need for reform so what's good for them and all that.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So Marty you think someone with terminal cancer couple of months left to live is fit for work.

Yes of course i do because that's exactly what i said

One extreme example you missed was the 49 yr old ,riddled with Arthritis ,having to take gob fulls of tablets ,blood monitoring every 2 weeks and steroid injections ,he was told he would be on the sick for the foreseeable future ,would not be able to drive for a living and certainly not be able to work fitting windows ,he was told all this last year by his specialist and is now fitting between 9 and 12 windows a day.My point is that just because you read of someone getting told by ATOS that they can work doesn't always mean they are wrong

[weenie]

Originally Posted by martyh

The problems arise when a decision is made that the client disagrees with .How many times has a doctors competency been called into question when a patient disagrees with a diagnosis .I don't think it would make any difference who did the assessments ,if the patient disagrees with it they will be rubbish and incompetent ,if the patient gets their own way then all will be well

Unfortunately in some cases the ATOS are not only disagreeing with the patient they are also disagreeing with the patients own doctor and specialist ...

Originally Posted by weenie

Unfortunately in some cases the ATOS are not only disagreeing with the patient they are also disagreeing with the patients own doctor and specialist ...

Who can also be extremely biased because it's their job

Bias is rampant throughout the whole welfare debate on both sides which is why a longterm workable solution is not possible and a person with two months to live being taken off benefit is OK in the eyes of some says a lot in itself.

Originally Posted by martyh

Who can also be extremely biased because it's their job

same thing but about ATOS cuz its their jobs and their targets

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Bias is rampant throughout the whole welfare debate on both sides which is why a longterm workable solution is not possible and a person with two months to live being taken off benefit is OK in the eyes of some says a lot in itself.

Exactly ATOS are government puppets and as I have said many times before the sick and the poor are being targeted to appease the tax payer.

For some those who are suffering are collateral damage for others they are human beings whose lives are being ruined. I know which side I am comfortable being on

[weenie]

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by martyh

Who can also be extremely biased because it's their job

True ...

Originally Posted by martyh

Yes of course i do because that's exactly what i said

One extreme example you missed was the 49 yr old ,riddled with Arthritis ,having to take gob fulls of tablets ,blood monitoring every 2 weeks and steroid injections ,he was told he would be on the sick for the foreseeable future ,would not be able to drive for a living and certainly not be able to work fitting windows ,he was told all this last year by his specialist and is now fitting between 9 and 12 windows a day.My point is that just because you read of someone getting told by ATOS that they can work doesn't always mean they are wrong

While a very high percentage of appeals are finding against ATOS I think that proves in a lot of cases they are indeed wrong.

Each and ever time an appeal goes against ATOS its a potential life in ruins I am not happy or comfortable with that and I do not like those who are in the slightest

[nomadking]

GPs and Consultants operate on the basis of believing the patient, on the basis the patient has no reason to lie to them. Bringing in the issue if benefits clouds the issues as there is now a possible incentive to lie.

Originally Posted by nomadking

GPs and Consultants operate on the basis of believing the patient, on the basis the patient has no reason to lie to them. Bringing in the issue if benefits clouds the issues as there is now a possible incentive to lie.

the liar who blags their doctor is better equipped to blag and get through the ATOS medical than the honest patient who needs the help

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

same thing but about ATOS cuz its their jobs and their targets

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------



Exactly ATOS are government puppets and as I have said many times before the sick and the poor are being targeted to appease the tax payer.

For some those who are suffering are collateral damage for others they are human beings whose lives are being ruined. I know which side I am comfortable being on

What about those who are swinging the lead or just plain faking an illness because it's easier than working ,they've managed to fool their gp and the specialist