10-10-2023, 11:00
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#106
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Just to be clear on who is doing what now:
Just to add, 50% of those in Gaza are children
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As in WWII, the allies would not accept a negotiated peace by either Japan or Germany. Only total surrender was acceptable.
Hamas could end it now if they release all the hostages, and all the militants throw down their weapons and surrender.
The blood of the Palestinians is squarely on Hamas's hands.
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10-10-2023, 11:03
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#107
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,393
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
As in WWII, the allies would not accept a negotiated peace by either Japan or Germany. Only total surrender was acceptable.
Hamas could end it now if they release all the hostages, and all the militants throw down their weapons and surrender.
The blood of the Palestinians is squarely on Hamas's hands.
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Is there a source for that kind offer or will Israel still commit war crimes through collective punishment on the Palestinian people anyway?
Knowing their own surrender will be certain death and that reprisals are inevitable, they could quite rationally just execute all the hostages since it'll be of almost no consequence to the future trajectory of the conflict. That blood could no more squarely be on Israeli hands than Palestinian blood on Hamas hands as you portray.
The only benefit to.keeping them alive would be as human shields or a prisoner swap.
Last edited by jfman; 10-10-2023 at 11:11.
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10-10-2023, 11:30
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#108
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Is there a source for that kind offer or will Israel still commit war crimes through collective punishment on the Palestinian people anyway?
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No, it's just a comment from me, If they did that I would expect Israel to ceasefire, as Israel is not a blood thirsty country that likes to kill innocents for fun.
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Knowing their own surrender will be certain death and that reprisals are inevitable, they could quite rationally just execute all the hostages since it'll be of almost no consequence to the future trajectory of the conflict
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You don't know that as much as don't know that. But at least you have acknowledged that Hamas value their own lives over the lives of the innocents they use as a shield.
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That blood could no more squarely be on Israeli hands than Palestinian blood on Hamas hands as you portray.
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The blood is already on Hamas's hands when they started this attack. Israeli retribution was inevitable, and probably the outcome they wanted anyway.
With Saudi Arabia, potentially, mulling over the Abraham Accords, if they had of signed up that would've been a major blow. There's no way they'll go anywhere near it now. Job done for Hamas, only cost a few thousand lives. Blood well spent.
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10-10-2023, 11:40
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#109
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,393
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
No, it's just a comment from me, If they did that I would expect Israel to ceasefire, as Israel is not a blood thirsty country that likes to kill innocents for fun.
You don't know that as much as don't know that. But at least you have acknowledged that Hamas value their own lives over the lives of the innocents they use as a shield.
The blood is already on Hamas's hands when they started this attack. Israeli retribution was inevitable, and probably the outcome they wanted anyway.
With Saudi Arabia, potentially, mulling over the Abraham Accords, if they had of signed up that would've been a major blow. There's no way they'll go anywhere near it now. Job done for Hamas, only cost a few thousand lives. Blood well spent.
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In all conflicts people value their own lives over those of their enemy - that's equally true of nation states as it is for non-state actors. As missiles rain down on Gaza killing scores of civilians it's preposterous to suggest this is an area where Israel hold the moral high ground.
Fundamentally Pierre you are stuck unable to view the conflict through any other prism than where Israel are on the right side and the Palestinians the wrong side. Your view is that only state actors have a legitimate pursuit of armed conflict - and indeed that they can ignore their obligations under international law when doing so. No amount of circuitous arguing (or Israeli war crimes) will convince you otherwise.
"They started it" might be a defence in a school playground but it absolutely does not remove Israel of it's obligations as an occupying force in Gaza.
Last edited by jfman; 10-10-2023 at 11:47.
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10-10-2023, 12:16
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#110
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
In all conflicts people value their own lives over those of their enemy - that's equally true of nation states as it is for non-state actors. As missiles rain down on Gaza killing scores of civilians it's preposterous to suggest this is an area where Israel hold the moral high ground.
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No doubt you also thought that Churchill and Truman should have been charged with war crimes.
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Fundamentally Pierre you are stuck unable to view the conflict through any other prism than where Israel are on the right side and the Palestinians the wrong side.
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In History..no, in regards to this incident....yes.
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Your view is that only state actors have a legitimate pursuit of armed conflict
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If attacked they have the right to defend themselves and then eliminate the threat.
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and indeed that they can ignore their obligations under international law when doing so. No amount of circuitous arguing (or Israeli war crimes) will convince you otherwise.
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If Israel commit war crimes over this incident I look forward to seeing them charged and appearing in the Hague.
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"They started it" might be a defence in a school playground but it absolutely does not remove Israel of it's obligations as an occupying force in Gaza.
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Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005, if they go in again we'll see what happens.
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10-10-2023, 12:20
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#111
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,393
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
No doubt you also thought that Churchill and Truman should have been charged with war crimes.
In History..no, in regards to this incident....yes.
If attacked they have the right to defend themselves and then eliminate the threat.
If Israel commit war crimes over this incident I look forward to seeing them charged and appearing in the Hague.
Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005, if they go in again we'll see what happens.
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Why would Israel be any more likely to be charged with war crimes in the future than they have been in the past?
You are no fool, Pierre, you know as well as I do that it's a false measure. Israelis are no more likely to end up in the Hague than Putin, or British soldiers or American soldiers who have executed civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else in the world.
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10-10-2023, 13:45
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#112
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,806
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
That’s the Israelis onto air strikes on refugee camps taking in the Palestinians fleeing their homes.
I presume the “you must condemn Hamas before you can speak of Israeli war crimes” brigade will be out any minute now to unequivocally condemn this.
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Told to leave their homes and then the camp is bombed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
You won't find a single post where I've defended them.
It's not 'whataboutery' - that relates to completely unlinked events. Politicians telling unrelated lies, different corruption, the Lawrence Fox and Chris Packham discussion the other day.
The actions of Israel and Palestinian terror groups are absolutely intertwined. Always have been and always will be.
For the avoidance of doubt:
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...0&postcount=72 |
Has anyone here defended them, criticism of one doesn't equate to support of another
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10-10-2023, 14:05
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#113
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,393
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
Told to leave their homes and then the camp is bombed...
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In another bout of “bad luck” the Israelis told Palestinians the border crossing to Egypt was open. It’s now been closed due to heavy bombing in the area.
A thought experiment might be if you wanted to systematically slaughter the Palestinian people, but do it just on the right side of plausible deniability, how would it differ from what we are witnessing now.
Last edited by jfman; 10-10-2023 at 14:08.
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10-10-2023, 15:29
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#114
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Posts: 36,958
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut
Yep, religion, The root of all evil.
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Yes, because Uncle Joe Stalin was an absolute saint.
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10-10-2023, 17:28
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#115
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,429
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
The blood of the Palestinians is squarely on Hamas's hands.
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It is quite remarkable that someone is content to sanction the killing of innocent children.
---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Yes, because Uncle Joe Stalin was an absolute saint.
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How about "Religion is the root of a lot of evil"?
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10-10-2023, 17:32
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#116
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,806
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
How about "Religion is the root of a lot of evil"?
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I think greed is the root of most evil, more than religion anyways, religious zeal makes it easier for men to commit the most heinous atrocities but then so does hate or patriotism or a plethora of other motives
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10-10-2023, 18:41
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#117
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
It is quite remarkable that someone is content to sanction the killing of innocent children.
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How exactly do you derive that conclusion from that sentence.
---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------
Hamas seem very happy to sanction it. Beheading babies and small children those heroic freedom fighters.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-b1112582.html
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10-10-2023, 18:51
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#118
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Do I care what you think
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cardiff South Wales
Age: 73
Services: V6 ,Virgin L. Phone Broadband.sky go Netflix
Posts: 4,302
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
It is quite remarkable that someone is content to sanction the killing of innocent children.
---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------
How about "Religion is the root of a lot of evil"?
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Like 99% . 
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10-10-2023, 18:55
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#119
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Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Last warning.
Any more digs at other members and you'll be out of this topic, that includes impressive leaps.
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10-10-2023, 19:12
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#120
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,429
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Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
How exactly do you derive that conclusion from that sentence.
---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------
Hamas seem very happy to sanction it. Beheading babies and small children those heroic freedom fighters.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-b1112582.html |
I am not sure why you are calling Hamas "heroic freedom fighters", they are disgusting, absolute vermin.
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