Child grooming gang found guilty

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

The article has other examples of white paedophiles rings where race isn't brought into the issue: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11821933.

Were the victims non-white? If not then it should be obvious why race didn't play a part.

Originally Posted by Russ

I can't believe you're not seeing this.

If a group of white men went out and beat up a gang on Asians I can't see how people could fail to call it a racially motivated attack.

If a group of Asian beat up a gang of whites, it would be the same.

The analogy here is if a gang of white men beat up a gang of other white people, would it make headlines with suggestions of racism? Of course not, and rightly so.

Because the analogy doesn't hold up. The motivations are different. If a gang goes a beats someone else up because of their race alone then that's clearly motivated by hatred. Are you saying these people were motivated by their hatred of white girls and not paedophilia? I think their attraction to children was their motivation not the race of those children.

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

Were the victims non-white? If not then it should be obvious why race didn't play a part.

Not every case of crimes between races are race crimes.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Because the analogy doesn't hold up. The motivations are different. If a gang goes a beats someone else up because of their race alone then that's clearly motivated by hatred. Are you saying these people were motivated by their hatred of white girls and not paedophilia? I think their attraction to children was their motivation not the race of those children.

If all the victims are white then it's not too difficult to assume that's why they chose them.

Originally Posted by Damien

Not every case of crimes between races are race crimes.

It seems that way when the victims are not white/British. In the example you gave there should be no reason why that case was reported any differently to any other paedophile gang crime.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

The point is that this Asian story dominated the news and has spawned a topic of 17 pages whereas a similar story involved a white gang has gone by with little mention or mention of their race.

That's because it's not a similar story,

It's funny that people see what they want to see.

Originally Posted by Russ

If all the victims are white then it's not too difficult to assume that's why they chose them.

The victims were all white in the other case as well. There are a lot of white people around. Even so the constant in all these cases are the victims race and not the accused races. The intense focus on the race of the accused in the Rochdale case where other cases their race gets little or no mention is worth questioning rather than dismissing out of hand. There may be, as I said before, a cultural element in some communities that means those communities have higher rates of these cases however that's quite a complex question.

It seems that way when the victims are not white/British.

It may seem that way. Either way that doesn't mean we should redress the balance by doing the same when the victims are white.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

That's because it's not a similar story,

It's funny that people see what they want to see.

If the story was that they were simply a gang why did their race play such a big part and why didn't it play a part in all the other paedophile rings?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

The victims were all white in the other case as well. There are a lot of white people around. Even so the constant in all these cases are the victims race and not the accused races. The intense focus on the race of the accused in the Rochdale case where other cases their race gets little or no mention is worth questioning rather than dismissing out of hand. There may be, as I said before, a cultural element in some communities that means those communities have higher rates of these cases however that's quite a complex question.

They were a gang of Asian or non-white men. Of all the victims they could have chosen, they went for white girls.

If you cannot see a racial connection there then I'm baffled.

Originally Posted by Russ

They were a gang of Asian or non-white men. Of all the victims they could have chosen, they went for white girls.

If you cannot see a racial connection there then I'm baffled.

I don't see the point. Is it because white girls where more at risk or because of some hatred of white people? If it's the former it's got nothing to do with the race of the accusers.

That said I think that might be going back over old ground. I guess the crucial question is if the race of the accusers warranted the extra media coverage it got as a result or not.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

The article has other examples of white paedophiles rings where race isn't brought into the issue: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11821933. It's not uncommon for paedophile rings to be smashed. Why is it that the fact they were white is never brought into it but it plays a key part when they are not?

OK, moving away from the non-existent paedophile gang in Derby abusing teenage girls.....


If you want talk about why that incident in Rochdale got all of the press coverage?

Because it was a good story.

It's an unfortunate fact that children go missing all the time, never to return. Why did Madeline McCann get so much press coverage?

Because it was a good story.

10's if not 100's of kids get stabbed and killed each year, who decides whihc ones get the press coverage?

It's all to do with the story,

The fact the gang in Rochdale were Asian, is a story, the age of the girls they were grooming, the colour of the girls they were grooming, the friction it caused between the communities and the reaction it caused.

like it or not it made good story.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't see the point. Is it because white girls where more at risk or because of some hatred of white people? If it's the former it's got nothing to do with the race of the accusers.

In the past when whites have been convicted of racial attacks and racially-motivated crimes I've not once heard anyone asking the question 'why?'. It is what it is - a gang of Asians targeted white girls. That in itself is worthy of more headlines than an Asian-on-Asian or white-on-white attack.

Originally Posted by Russ

In the past when whites have been convicted of racial attacks and racially-motivated crimes I've not once heard anyone asking the question 'why?'. It is what it is - a gang of Asians targeted white girls. That in itself is worthy of more headlines than an Asian-on-Asian or white-on-white attack.

Well I am asking why. Because I don't think it's as simple as someone beating up someone else because of their race. Why is important.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well I am asking why. Because I don't think it's as simple as someone beating up someone else because of their race. Why is important.

I don't think 'why' makes the crime any less disturbing. If anything it sounds like an attempt to deflect the blame from the perpetrators' evil ways.

Originally Posted by Pierre

OK, moving away from the non-existent paedophile gang in Derby abusing teenage girls.....

There are other examples of groups that are white that have committed these crimes. Acting as a group isn't a Asian thing.

The fact the gang in Rochdale were Asian, is a story, the age of the girls they were grooming, the colour of the girls they were grooming, the friction it caused between the communities and the reaction it caused.

like it or not it made good story.

I know it made a good story. The age of the girls isn't what makes it different, it was the races involved. However the exploitation and abuse of vulnerable white girls is clearly not limited to Asians, I conceded there may be a disproportionate amount of people in these areas accused of such crimes but I think that's not really about race and is a complex set of issues.

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

I don't think 'why' makes the crime any less disturbing. If anything it sounds like an attempt to deflect the blame from the perpetrators' evil ways.

I don't think it makes it any less disturbing at all. Understanding 'why' doesn't deflect blame from anyone but makes it a less superficial conversation that focusing on race unless the reasons race is an issue are explored.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

However the exploitation and abuse of vulnerable white girls is clearly not limited to Asians

It seemed to be in the Rochdale case.

---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think it makes it any less disturbing at all. Understanding 'why' doesn't deflect blame from anyone but makes it a less superficial conversation that focusing on race unless the reasons race is an issue are explored.

Again I don't remember any questions being asked 'why' when the victims of racist attacks are white. It seems to be just accept that they were racially-motived, end of.

On that basis I don't see why anyone should asking 'why' in the Rochdale case.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 ----------

Another one bites the dust...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-19090706

Good riddance to the scumbag.

Originally Posted by Russ

Again I don't remember any questions being asked 'why' when the victims of racist attacks are white. It seems to be just accept that they were racially-motived, end of.

On that basis I don't see why anyone should asking 'why' in the Rochdale case.

So we just say that it's racially motivated and don't expand on why? Utterly illogical.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Russ

They were a gang of Asian or non-white men. Of all the victims they could have chosen, they went for white girls.

If you cannot see a racial connection there then I'm baffled.

On top of that, iirc, the men actually stated that they targetted white girls because 'they were easy' compared to asian girls......