Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 26-10-2016, 01:35   #16
rogerdraig
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,509
rogerdraig has reached the bronze age
rogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze age
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerdraig
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
It would have been a thoughtful touch in support of gay marriage if the bakers had the two muppets engaged in buggery on top of the cake.

But seriously, this court decision is a precedent fraught with dangers.



You missed out Leviticus Chapter 18/22
If you believe then that may well apply to you but we should leave any judging to god . If you run a business unless what you are asked is unlawful then you should provide the service impartially.

Matthew 7:1-3
rogerdraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 26-10-2016, 02:14   #17
pip08456
Sad Doig Fan!
 
pip08456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,646
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

You can quote the bible to make any point you want that's the whole problem with it!
pip08456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 03:19   #18
rogerdraig
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,509
rogerdraig has reached the bronze age
rogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze agerogerdraig has reached the bronze age
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerdraig
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
You can quote the bible to make any point you want that's the whole problem with it!
only if you don't take the context or that the old testament is not in the main ( murder theft etc excepted ) part of what Christians should obey the ransom paid absolved them of most of the laws that [part imposes. So though those of us who believe should live up to what We profess to believe.

We should not impose those values beliefs on others. Tell them about them yes at the right time and place . Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone. ( I don't think anyone can imply that quote could ever mean that someone would ever be perfect enough to throw that stone )
rogerdraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 10:07   #19
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
You can quote the bible to make any point you want that's the whole problem with it!
Only if you think the Bible is a collection of sayings with no context.

The people who wrote it certainly didn't think that's what they were writing. Nor did the people who collected it together and affirmed it as the word of God.

The meetings at which the early Church leaders finally agreed what should be in the Bible and what shouldn't (and why) are well documented historical events. Whether or not you believe the message the Bible contains, you at least owe those leaders the courtesy of accepting that they made deliberate choices and believed those choices painted a clear and consistent picture of God's dealings with the human race, and the response God requires of us.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 10:57   #20
tweetiepooh
Virgin Media Employee
 
tweetiepooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winchester
Services: Staff MyRates BB: VM XXL TV: VM XL Phone : VM XL
Posts: 3,107
tweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appeal
tweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appeal
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Overall there is a difference between not serving because the customer is .... and because the customer makes a request you don't feel you can accommodate or you believe to be unreasonable/unlawful.
__________________
I work for VMO2 but reply here in my own right. Any help or advice is made on a best-effort basis. No comments construe any obligation on VMO2 or its employees.
tweetiepooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 12:05   #21
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,842
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig View Post
If you believe then that may well apply to you but we should leave any judging to god
I offered the additional reference as it seemed its exclusion was an accidental oversight.

Quote:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
It seems to me that the judgement has already been made by God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig View Post
If you run a business unless what you are asked is unlawful then you should provide the service impartially.
It is unlawful according to the word of God.
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 13:09   #22
pip08456
Sad Doig Fan!
 
pip08456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,646
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdraig View Post
only if you don't take the context or that the old testament is not in the main ( murder theft etc excepted ) part of what Christians should obey the ransom paid absolved them of most of the laws that [part imposes. So though those of us who believe should live up to what We profess to believe.

We should not impose those values beliefs on others. Tell them about them yes at the right time and place . Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone. ( I don't think anyone can imply that quote could ever mean that someone would ever be perfect enough to throw that stone )
Exactly my point, you quote bible verses and expect everyone to know the context yet you've taken the verse out of context.

There are other religions in the world! How would a Buddist, Hindu or anyone of another faith have any idea of the context of any verse plucked from the bible?

That is how evanglists work, they quote bible verses to prove any point they wish to make.
pip08456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 13:54   #23
Hugh
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,040
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
Maggy, total agree with you.
To me it doesn't make sense, or was this the couple wanted to try and prove a point.

I heard recently a radio programme, where someone was complaining about something rather stupid. And a guy said. Why don't people get a life. If one person doesn't serve you, go somewhere else - simples
And if every shop won't serve you because you are black/ gay/ female/ disabled/ Jewish/ Muslim/ Catholic/ Atheist (delete as applicable), where do you go?
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it
.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 14:04   #24
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
And if every shop won't serve you because you are black/ gay/ female/ disabled/ Jewish/ Muslim/ Catholic/ Atheist (delete as applicable), where do you go?
As has been stated multiple times, the bakers in this case did not refuse service based on the sexual orientation of the customer, but because they did not wish to associate with a political campaign to change the law in Northern Ireland.

As the appeal court ruling stands, it appears that legislation intended to prevent discrimination now also has the effect of compelling public statements in favour of certain beliefs or practices. It makes absolutely no difference how good or right a certain cause is perceived to be, nobody, in public or private, in business or at leisure, should be forced to do such a thing, and if that's the effect this law has had, then the law needs to change.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 14:26   #25
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb, V6 STB
Posts: 7,861
nomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze array
nomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze array
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Doesn't that mean that a forum such as this is not allowed to be moderated?
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 14:26   #26
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Doesn't what mean?
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 15:45   #27
Hugh
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,040
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
As has been stated multiple times, the bakers in this case did not refuse service based on the sexual orientation of the customer, but because they did not wish to associate with a political campaign to change the law in Northern Ireland.

As the appeal court ruling stands, it appears that legislation intended to prevent discrimination now also has the effect of compelling public statements in favour of certain beliefs or practices. It makes absolutely no difference how good or right a certain cause is perceived to be, nobody, in public or private, in business or at leisure, should be forced to do such a thing, and if that's the effect this law has had, then the law needs to change.
I understand that, but I was replying to Arthur's point about not being served.

And I don't believe they were being forced to make a 'public statement' in favour of gay marriage - they were not being forced to display the cake, just make it...
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it
.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.

Last edited by Hugh; 26-10-2016 at 15:49.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 16:02   #28
tweetiepooh
Virgin Media Employee
 
tweetiepooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winchester
Services: Staff MyRates BB: VM XXL TV: VM XL Phone : VM XL
Posts: 3,107
tweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appeal
tweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appealtweetiepooh has a bronzed appeal
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Sometimes verses can be quoted in isolation. Ex20:13 "You must not murder anyone" is a good case. The context allows such quoting.

Other times the context is important both in the surrounding text and in the original audience/culture. Generally any laws in the Old Testament not re-emphasised in the New are usually regarded as cultural and not applying to us today. e.g. rules on cutting beards, mixing fabric and so on.

---
And Chris has hit the nail on the head. The laws to protect have become a weapon to attack and victimise.
__________________
I work for VMO2 but reply here in my own right. Any help or advice is made on a best-effort basis. No comments construe any obligation on VMO2 or its employees.
tweetiepooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 16:30   #29
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
I understand that, but I was replying to Arthur's point about not being served.

And I don't believe they were being forced to make a 'public statement' in favour of gay marriage - they were not being forced to display the cake, just make it...
On the contrary, I believe everything a business does makes a statement of one kind or another. Witness last year's outrage over effective tax rates for a recent example, and the number of businesses that have changed their arrangements (without having been legally obliged to).

Businesses can and do hold political opinions - we have the recent referendum as proof of that.

Businesses can and do support charitable causes of one kind or another.

Many of them make investment and operational decisions based on ethical considerations (use of fair trade ingredients, or selected investment funds, for example).

They may choose to act in ways that they perceive are good for their reputation or the wider social good and they may choose to campaign on one side or another of a political issue if they believe one side or the other favours their aims.

A printing business would be entirely at liberty to refuse to deal with the Labour Party if it favoured a Tory government. Unfortunately the appeal court has agreed with the argument that not discriminating against someone on the grounds of their sexual orientation extends to not refusing to produce campaign material that argues against something that is currently illegal. If the law really does say that, then it is absurd, and I would dearly love to see the McArthurs take this to the Supreme Court where its compatibility with their human rights can be properly considered.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 16:42   #30
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,842
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

If I'd been the McArthur's I'd have left that cake out in the rain until all the sweet green icing was flowing down. I wouldn't admit to doing it though; I'd just say 'someone' did it and that I can't bake a replacement because I don't have the recipe anymore.

Drama averted .
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:59.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.