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Want ADSL?-Read on....
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Old 01-12-2003, 19:49   #46
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
and last time I checked I was free to ask - or is this against the rules now ?

Not at all but now that we are having this discussion in this thread, we are taking the thread off-topic so...
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Old 01-12-2003, 19:50   #47
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
and last time I checked I was free to ask - or is this against the rules now ?

Watch out Ive seen the plummbers toolbag.... Wouldnt want hi to get those spanners around my nuts...
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Old 01-12-2003, 19:52   #48
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pem
poolking - I did not say anything about what they can or cannot discuss - I asked why a topic about Pipex adsl was in the NTL discussion forum. So far they haven't actually answered this question.
The thread is here because it is aimed at ntl customers. It is here to show them how easy it is to ditch their BB 'service' & get ADSL.

The topic isn't about Pipex specifically, I only mentioned them in the post as they are who I chose as my DSL provider.
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Old 01-12-2003, 19:53   #49
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?

How about

Alternatives to ntl ?

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Old 01-12-2003, 20:00   #50
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Plummer
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?

How about

Alternatives to ntl ?

Gets my vote
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Old 01-12-2003, 20:23   #51
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt94sss2
hehe - consider yourself corrected

All BT ADSL exchanges can cope with the same speeds (as they all have the same equipment fitted) - it just that Bulldog use a different method of backhaul from some of the exchanges to its core network which allows to offer services like its Primetime "time of day" offering at those exchanges

I have to say I now use Bulldog Primetime 2000 and for less than £30 its very good value - even during the day when its supposed to be capped at 512K - I can get 600/650K

Also, if you do have problems that Bulldog can't resolve they appear to offer to release you from the contract.

If anyone does want to join Bulldog - would they mind contacting me privately so that I can refer them

Appartantly over 50% of Bulldog's new business currently comes from such referrals!
Thanks for the correction
Before i switched to the other side i could only check that the local BT exchange was adsl compatable by typing in my postcode This method is only 80-90% accurate (typing a phone number is more accurate) the reply i saw said :
"Good news! The checker indicates that ADSL Broadband is available in your area and that the preliminary check on your postcode suggests that you should be able to receive ADSL Broadband services at speeds from 512kilobits per second to 2Megabits per second downstream and 256kilobits per second upstream"
i guess when typing in a phone number will bring up something different?

I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.

There are some pitbull falls with bulldog that could be highlighted a deciding factor if Dr. Plummer decides to create a new forum catagory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Plummer
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?

How about

Alternatives to ntl ?

Good call
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Old 01-12-2003, 20:57   #52
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty
Gets my vote
Mine too!
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:07   #53
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwesome
There are some pitbull falls with bulldog that could be highlighted a deciding factor if Dr. Plummer decides to create a new forum catagory.
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:09   #54
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwesome
Before i switched to the other side i could only check that the local BT exchange was adsl compatable by typing in my postcode This method is only 80-90% accurate (typing a phone number is more accurate) the reply i saw said :
"Good news! The checker indicates that ADSL Broadband is available in your area and that the preliminary check on your postcode suggests that you should be able to receive ADSL Broadband services at speeds from 512kilobits per second to 2Megabits per second downstream and 256kilobits per second upstream"
i guess when typing in a phone number will bring up something different?
Actually the message is almost identical!

Though it is more accurate as they can give you an idea of your own line rather than just a guess based on your postcode.

Quote:
I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.
Other ISP's could offer it if they wanted but Bulldog's business model is a bit different.

In their view they are mainly a "business" ISP - thus they have loads of spare bandwidth and can afford "cheap" off peak tariffs for residentail customers - thats the theory anyway.
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:11   #55
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwesome
At a guess some BT exchanges although adsl upgraded can only handle a certain adsl speed (someone will nodoubt correct me if this is incorrect).

Trouble with Bulldog is that your limited to 512k during non peak time wouldnt be so bad if on the 2meg package you were limited to 1meg during peak times during the day and i think someone has already pointed out that you are tied to a 12 month contract (if you look hard enough you can find a 3month and lower contracts) so if you find the service not to your liking then you have a long wait till you can jump ship..


I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.
Bulldog offer the package you describe above, PrimeTime 2000, and an AllTime 2000 product, from over 400 enabled exchanges. From 70 or so in Central London they offer services for the home up to 6Mbit/s downstream and 400kbit/s upstream.

A number of ADSL ISPs offer similar 2Mbit services from a number of enabled exchanges using an alternative form of ADSL provisioning called 'DataStream' or Option 3 in BT speak, have a google :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt94sss2
hehe - consider yourself corrected

All BT ADSL exchanges can cope with the same speeds (as they all have the same equipment fitted) - it just that Bulldog use a different method of backhaul from some of the exchanges to its core network which allows to offer services like its Primetime "time of day" offering at those exchanges
LOL no sir, consider yourself corrected

Not all BT exchanges are equipped equally, they have varying backhaul depending on demand and other factors. Typical backhaul is 4 - 8Mbit for 512k 50:1 users and 10Mbit for 20:1 business users, not sure what is provisioned for 1Mbit users, think they go on the same paths as 512k.

This only applies to IPStream not DataStream, which uses a dedicated ATM link from each exchange onto Bulldog's ATM network, rather than having the data go to BT's LAC (L2TP Access Concentrator) along with the other IPStream ISPs on an exchange and get seperated there to be fed to the individual ISPs.

Bulldog's DataStream links typically vary between 2Mbit and at most 10Mbit, which in some cases works rather poorly, when there are 2 or 3 2Mbit users on an exchange intent on anhialating the 2Mbit VP (Virtual Pipe/Path) and said path only delivers 1.8Mbit of actual usable data speeds get a bit hairy.

That is how Bulldog delivers their alternative services on 450 or so exchanges in the UK.

In the 70 or so (I think) in Central London they actually use all their own kit. People's copper phone lines come in and go to Bulldog's own DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer) - the bit that combines all the incoming ADSL 'calls' into ATM for backhaul, and from their goes down Bulldog's Metronet. As Bulldog have complete control of this apart from the copper itself and the line card at BT they can offer whatever they want on it, DataStream and IPStream are limited by BT to 2048k/256k maximum. Usually LLU (Local Loop Unbundled or BT speak DSL Option 2) exchanges are on 100Mbit LAN Extension lines

And that's it in a nutshell, albeit a large one, hope that helps *phew*

Without having to google once *flex*
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:17   #56
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellwear
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff
A few people have problems getting decent speeds (its to do with the way Bulldog do their backhaul) but its exchange specific. (i.e. individual users using a lot more bandwidth then Bulldog thought they would)

As problems appear Bulldog increase capacity from that exchange and resolve them though a few people find their problems don't get fixed and then Bulldog seem to release them from their 12 month contracts.

Personally, as I said I find it excellent value - if you have any Bulldog specific questions - drop me a line just in case we bore everyone else here
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:29   #57
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b
Bulldog offer the package you describe above, PrimeTime 2000, and an AllTime 2000 product, from over 400 enabled exchanges. From 70 or so in Central London they offer services for the home up to 6Mbit/s downstream and 400kbit/s upstream.

A number of ADSL ISPs offer similar 2Mbit services from a number of enabled exchanges using an alternative form of ADSL provisioning called 'DataStream' or Option 3 in BT speak, have a google :p

Not all BT exchanges are equipped equally, they have varying backhaul depending on demand and other factors. Typical backhaul is 4 - 8Mbit for 512k 50:1 users and 10Mbit for 20:1 business users, not sure what is provisioned for 1Mbit users, think they go on the same paths as 512k.

This only applies to IPStream not DataStream, which uses a dedicated ATM link from each exchange onto Bulldog's ATM network, rather than having the data go to BT's LAC (L2TP Access Concentrator) along with the other IPStream ISPs on an exchange and get seperated there to be fed to the individual ISPs.

Bulldog's DataStream links typically vary between 2Mbit and at most 10Mbit, which in some cases works rather poorly, when there are 2 or 3 2Mbit users on an exchange intent on anhialating the 2Mbit VP (Virtual Pipe/Path) and said path only delivers 1.8Mbit of actual usable data speeds get a bit hairy.

That is how Bulldog delivers their alternative services on 450 or so exchanges in the UK.

In the 70 or so (I think) in Central London they actually use all their own kit. People's copper phone lines come in and go to Bulldog's own DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer) - the bit that combines all the incoming ADSL 'calls' into ATM for backhaul, and from their goes down Bulldog's Metronet. As Bulldog have complete control of this apart from the copper itself and the line card at BT they can offer whatever they want on it, DataStream and IPStream are limited by BT to 2048k/256k maximum. Usually LLU (Local Loop Unbundled or BT speak DSL Option 2) exchanges are on 100Mbit LAN Extension lines

And that's it in a nutshell, albeit a large one, hope that helps *phew*

Without having to google once *flex*
lol - no need for a google - I used to work a telco (not NTL!)

I was keeping things simple and only talking about BT's own kit at the exchanges using IPStream, not the 35 Bulldog have LLU'ed in Central London or the fact that Bulldog sometimes use BT DataStream (though I did mention that Bulldog use a different form of backhaul as a reference) to operate the the Primetime service

BT IPStream exchanges have "sufficient" backhaul to BT's core network - the amounts differ according to the number of customers buts its more than sufficient

Bulldog uses BT DataStream as you correctly say and that can cause problems sometimes which is why Bulldog increase capicaty etc as I have also stated.

BT DataStream can only go up to 10MB per Virtual Circuit but Bulldog sometimes have more than 1 going to an exchange (they must have quite a few customers on those!) or so I have been reliabilty informed.

On the 35 exchanges which Bulldog have LLU'ed (central London only) a its all their equipment they are now offering up to 8Mb lines...

Hopefully as some of the DataStream exchanges get busier they will LLU them as well.

Easynet are the only other people really doing LLU in abig way (more exchanges than Bulldog) but they are not offering residentail services yet - but they will be next year sometime from what I have been told
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Old 01-12-2003, 21:47   #58
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellwear
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff
I have mentioned a few things to look out for before

have a read of the bulldog faqs (PrimeTime 1000/2000 Promotion)

17.(if the service is not what you expected) minimum term period.
18.(i have already mentioned this part in another post it applies to up/downgrading) and it doesnt apply to just bulldog.

and.....
22. Its getting close to xmas so if you havent decided you will have to be quick and the lower subscription price is a End of Year Sale Promotion.
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Old 01-12-2003, 23:00   #59
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt94sss2
lol - no need for a google - I used to work a telco (not NTL!)
Hopefully as some of the DataStream exchanges get busier they will LLU them as well.

Easynet are the only other people really doing LLU in abig way (more exchanges than Bulldog) but they are not offering residentail services yet - but they will be next year sometime from what I have been told


Tricky the extra LLU as Bulldog at the mo only have a Metronet AFAIK.

Yep heard that too, they are taking orders to guage demand for their services on all exchanges, IPStreamed up or not, and this is I think a precursor to offering residential services.

Mmmm 8Mbit/768kbit
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Old 01-12-2003, 23:35   #60
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Re: Want ADSL?-Read on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Plummer
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?

How about

Alternatives to ntl ?

Sorry, only just got back to this forum - and I agree with you.
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