Liz Truss Resigns [Who'll be the next Prime Minister?]

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

I suggest we don’t need a leader who makes laws, flouts them, and repeatedly lies and ignores rules and conventions to get his mates out of trouble.

For fear of going over old ground but the “flouts the laws” angle has never really had a tremendous amount of weight.

It has been evidenced that numerous MPs that either made, voted for or indeed requested harsher laws all flouted them when it suited them.

And just in regards to the Tory leadership, Sunak is as culpable as Johnson.

As I say, a choice between those two is no choice at all.

[Dave42]

Some Tory donors being told Boris will not run.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status...94436148178944

Originally Posted by Pierre

For fear of going over old ground but the “flouts the laws” angle has never really had a tremendous amount of weight.

It has been evidenced that numerous MPs that either made, voted for or indeed requested harsher laws all flouted them when it suited them.

And just in regards to the Tory leadership, Sunak is as culpable as Johnson.

As I say, a choice between those two is no choice at all.

I don't like Sunak, I don't like a lot of the current frontline Tories.

But I think there is a basic standard of competence and decency that is required of senior politicians. Teresa May had it, as much as I dislike him generally Cameron had it.

Sunak also got fined and in another political age maybe he would be out of the running for this job but that isn't this time. Thankfully for him, he is against Boris Johnson who didn't just get fined but lied time and time again about it, tried to change the rules to get his mate off a lobbying charge and then ignored allegations of sexual harassment even giving a job to the accused and once again lied about it when called on it.

Time and time again Johnson thinks rules don't apply to him and seems to like brazenly and repeatedly even about trivial things. Right now all the press is excitedly reporting about him returning home from his holiday but why was he on holiday? Parliament was in recess all summer and then again for party conference season. He still has a job.

There is a point when you have to say enough. Sunak is a Leaver who believes in a small state. I really hope he loses an election. But between him and Johnson I think it has to be Sunak because he clears the bar of being a better moral character than Johnson.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't like Sunak, I don't like a lot of the current frontline Tories.

But I think there is a basic standard of competence and decency that is required of senior politicians. Teresa May had it, as much as I dislike him generally Cameron had it.

Sunak also got fined and in another political age maybe he would be out of the running for this job but that isn't this time. Thankfully for him, he is against Boris Johnson who didn't just get fined but lied time and time again about it, tried to change the rules to get his mate off a lobbying charge and then ignored allegations of sexual harassment even giving a job to the accused and once again lied about it when called on it.

Time and time again Johnson thinks rules don't apply to him and seems to like brazenly and repeatedly even about trivial things. Right now all the press is excitedly reporting about him returning home from his holiday but why was he on holiday? Parliament was in recess all summer and then again for party conference season. He still has a job.

There is a point when you have to say enough. Sunak is a Leaver who believes in a small state. I really hope he loses an election. But between him and Johnson I think it has to be Sunak because he clears the bar of being a better moral character than Johnson.

Sunak also lied.

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status...jJk0HYqzQUUD9g

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't like Sunak, I don't like a lot of the current frontline Tories.

But I think there is a basic standard of competence and decency that is required of senior politicians. Teresa May had it, as much as I dislike him generally Cameron had it.

Sunak also got fined and in another political age maybe he would be out of the running for this job but that isn't this time. Thankfully for him, he is against Boris Johnson who didn't just get fined but lied time and time again about it, tried to change the rules to get his mate off a lobbying charge and then ignored allegations of sexual harassment even giving a job to the accused and once again lied about it when called on it.

Time and time again Johnson thinks rules don't apply to him and seems to like brazenly and repeatedly even about trivial things. Right now all the press is excitedly reporting about him returning home from his holiday but why was he on holiday? Parliament was in recess all summer and then again for party conference season. He still has a job.

There is a point when you have to say enough. Sunak is a Leaver who believes in a small state. I really hope he loses an election. But between him and Johnson I think it has to be Sunak because he clears the bar of being a better moral character than Johnson.

Theresa May again, did not have it, she was weak and feeble, decided to get her own mandate then went on campaign trail of “Strong & Stable”, which was a bit dim and lost the Tories their majority.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Sunak also lied.

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status...jJk0HYqzQUUD9g

Yes, never said he was great.

Originally Posted by Mick

Theresa May again, did not have it, she was weak and feeble, decided to get her own mandate then went on campaign trail of “Strong & Stable”, which was a bit dim and lost the Tories their majority.

Didn't say she was a good PM. Just that she had basic moral character and decency. Maybe not competent.

Is Penny Mordaunt any good as an option ? I know very little about her.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes, never said he was great.

But this is the thing. You, and others, put him forward as the morally superior choice!

The man who also lied in Parliament. The man who worked behind the scenes to remove the leader of the party, very moral. The person that printed a shed load of cash to pay people to stay at home, causing the economic crisis we are now in.

Sunak is complicit in everything, but he’s the best person!

The markets like him? Seems democracy has been bent over and royally rogered by “the markets” recently. It seems that regardless of what course sovereign governments wish to explore, is irrelevant. We are subservient to “the markets” and what “the markets” want changes on a daily basis.

I don’t know who I want. But to suggest Sunak is morally superior to Johnson is laughable.

People voted for Boris, not Sunak. Boris has a chance, albeit a very slim one, to at least hang on to some of the red wall. Sunak has no chance whatsoever.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Is Penny Mordaunt any good as an option ? I know very little about her.

Objectively (honestly) I’d say so.

The Conservative Party need to move on. A decade from when an EU referendum was mooted it finds itself bogged down in the same old debates.

Boris is a liar, he and Sunak both broke the law. Sunak is eye wateringly wealthy with a US Green Card and questionable tax practices under his own roof. Neither will appeal to the public at the next election.

We do indeed know little. However it makes her a relatively clean slate.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Objectively (honestly) I’d say so.

The Conservative Party need to move on. A decade from when an EU referendum was mooted it finds itself bogged down in the same old debates.

Boris is a liar, he and Sunak both broke the law. Sunak is eye wateringly wealthy with a US Green Card and questionable tax practices under his own roof. Neither will appeal to the public at the next election.

We do indeed know little. However it makes her a relatively clean slate.

Team JFman again !

Originally Posted by Pierre

But this is the thing. You, and others, put him forward as the morally superior choice!

Out of Johnson and Sunak yes. Eveything you said about Sunak applies more to Johnson. Both of them were fined, and both lied about it. Johnson also lied and promoted Pincher and lied several more times in Parliament.

The man who also lied in Parliament. The man who worked behind the scenes to remove the leader of the party, very moral. The person that printed a shed load of cash to pay people to stay at home, causing the economic crisis we are now in.

Sunak is complicit in everything, but he’s the best person!

Johnson was behind that too. He lied in Parliament. He worked to remove May.

The markets like him? Seems democracy has been bent over and royally rogered by “the markets” recently. It seems that regardless of what course sovereign governments wish to explore, is irrelevant. We are subservient to “the markets” and what “the markets” want changes on a daily basis.

The markets are what Truss wanted to borrow from. They upped the price of borrowing because they doubted the economic ability of the U.K to pay it back. I don't like it but if you're the free market party electing a leader who believes in free markets then don't whine if it proves your undoing.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Out of Johnson and Sunak yes. Eveything you said about Sunak applies more to Johnson. Both of them were fined, and both lied about it. Johnson also lied and promoted Pincher and lied several more times in Parliament.

They’re two sides of the same shit sandwich. The only difference between us is, if going forward, with either of these two, in my opinion Boris would do better.

But a poor proposition. Either way

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Team JFman again !

I do think he’s slightly morally superior to Johnson, but probably less electable despite that. Neither are fit for the problems of 2025-30.

Originally Posted by Pierre

They’re two sides of the same shit sandwich. The only difference between us is, if going forward, with either of these two, in my opinion Boris would do better.

But a poor proposition. Either way

One is less awful than the other, and it’s a choice of one or the other. On that basis alone, Sunak is the one.

There simply isn’t going to be a general election unless the parliamentary conservatives become unmanageable. The polls guarantee a wipeout. The only sensible course of action if you’re a Tory is to choose the most stabilising leader on offer and hope that something comes up by 2024 that makes that wipeout less likely. That more than 70 Tory MPs don’t seem able to see that is sobering but there are encouraging signs this evening that Sunak and BoJo are going to sew it up so no contest is required.

If Sunak has any sense he’ll offer Boris the foreign office and encourage him to spend as much time as possible in Kyiv.