Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Coronavirus

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Coronavirus
View Poll Results: When you become eligible for the Covid Vaccine, would you take it?
Yes 76 84.44%
No 8 8.89%
Unsure 6 6.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 18-03-2021, 15:18   #4156
Carth
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
Carth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze array
Carth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze array
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
You would love quantum mechanics then. Plenty of statistics there!

On the raw materials shortage, it looks like the US exports ban on those big plastic bags and filters might be the cause of the delays - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...4.cms?from=mdr

Not to worry, I'm sure the Government are currently pushing through a lucrative deal with the CEO of the Cornish tin miner association to deliver thousands of perfectly safe and sterile plastic bags with filters
Carth is offline  
Advertisement
Old 18-03-2021, 15:48   #4157
pip08456
Sad Doig Fan!
 
pip08456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,647
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
You would love quantum mechanics then. Plenty of statistics there!

On the raw materials shortage, it looks like the US exports ban on those big plastic bags and filters might be the cause of the delays - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...4.cms?from=mdr
Bring back carboys!

Quote:
Statistics are what the efficacy of the vaccine and impact of side-effects are based on, so I’m not sure what your point is?
Depends on what you want to show. 6 women as opposed to 17million. Were they on any other medication regime, etc, etc. Why only women? Can statistics answer that? Sorry one man as well.

Statiscally how safe is the AZ vaccine in your opinion???

Last edited by pip08456; 18-03-2021 at 15:51.
pip08456 is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 15:53   #4158
Hugh
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,044
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Coronavirus

Well, I had the AZ vaccine, so there's my opinion...

re your questions - that may be why the EMA is reviewing the incidents, to obtain answers...
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it
.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 15:59   #4159
pip08456
Sad Doig Fan!
 
pip08456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,647
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Well, I had the AZ vaccine, so there's my opinion...

re your questions - that may be why the EMA is reviewing the incidents, to obtain answers...
Again, can statistics answer that?
pip08456 is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 16:32   #4160
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

I think some are missing the point that it's entirely appropriate and their role to investigate such matters.

While side effects are extremely rare. Why only women? A very good question. Were they on any other medication? Another good question.

If we could narrow such things down deployment can continue in a safer manner than now around the world. Surely something everyone would want given we have another 60 million or so doses to issue ourselves plus any "new variant booster" launched in the autumn.
jfman is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 16:47   #4161
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Coronavirus

There are two parallel questions really. 1. Should they investigate? (Obviously yes) and 2. Should they halt use while they investigate? (Depends).

In the present circumstances the precautionary principle is liable to kill more people than it saves. The number of people suffering these clots is vanishingly small. The number of people dying from them is even smaller. Covid itself is clearly the far greater and deadlier threat. Some national regulators seem to have inadequate investigative procedures for pandemic situations. Their basic premise (that it is safer to do nothing) is flawed.

The MHRA's far more sensible pandemic operating principle has been to allow use of the vaccine to continue while a thorough review of the evidence was conducted. It has now concluded that review and is unequivocal. There is no evidence of a causal link between the Ox-AZ vaccine and the cerebral thromboses reported to it (five of them, one fatal, from the 11 million vaccinations reviewed).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56447367

What will be interesting to see now, is how quickly those national regulators that have ordered suspensions, will lift them. The MHRA has shown how quickly this sort of work can be done when an emergency situation demands it. Somehow, I suspect the regulators in some other countries still haven't twigged that this is a public health emergency and that they need to start behaving accordingly.
Chris is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 16:56   #4162
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,188
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
There are two parallel questions really. 1. Should they investigate? (Obviously yes) and 2. Should they halt use while they investigate? (Depends).

In the present circumstances the precautionary principle is liable to kill more people than it saves. The number of people suffering these clots is vanishingly small. The number of people dying from them is even smaller. Covid itself is clearly the far greater and deadlier threat. Some national regulators seem to have inadequate investigative procedures for pandemic situations. Their basic premise (that it is safer to do nothing) is flawed.

The MHRA's far more sensible pandemic operating principle has been to allow use of the vaccine to continue while a thorough review of the evidence was conducted. It has now concluded that review and is unequivocal. There is no evidence of a causal link between the Ox-AZ vaccine and the cerebral thromboses reported to it (five of them, one fatal, from the 11 million vaccinations reviewed).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56447367

What will be interesting to see now, is how quickly those national regulators that have ordered suspensions, will lift them. The MHRA has shown how quickly this sort of work can be done when an emergency situation demands it. Somehow, I suspect the regulators in some other countries still haven't twigged that this is a public health emergency and that they need to start behaving accordingly.
Great post. Too many regulators appear to be in business as usual mode and not doing the maths.
1andrew1 is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 16:57   #4163
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
There are two parallel questions really. 1. Should they investigate? (Obviously yes) and 2. Should they halt use while they investigate? (Depends).

In the present circumstances the precautionary principle is liable to kill more people than it saves. The number of people suffering these clots is vanishingly small. The number of people dying from them is even smaller. Covid itself is clearly the far greater and deadlier threat. Some national regulators seem to have inadequate investigative procedures for pandemic situations. Their basic premise (that it is safer to do nothing) is flawed.

The MHRA's far more sensible pandemic operating principle has been to allow use of the vaccine to continue while a thorough review of the evidence was conducted. It has now concluded that review and is unequivocal. There is no evidence of a causal link between the Ox-AZ vaccine and the cerebral thromboses reported to it (five of them, one fatal, from the 11 million vaccinations reviewed).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56447367

What will be interesting to see now, is how quickly those national regulators that have ordered suspensions, will lift them. The MHRA has shown how quickly this sort of work can be done when an emergency situation demands it. Somehow, I suspect the regulators in some other countries still haven't twigged that this is a public health emergency and that they need to start behaving accordingly.
Exactly. What are those fools thinking? Haven't they done the maths? Something's very wrong with the foundations of their thinking.
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.
Sephiroth is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:15   #4164
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

But what is the benefit in continuing to issue it for the EU?

AZ in the EU are miles behind in terms of deliveries and the bloc are months away from being in a position to meaningfully ease restrictions.

Right now the biggest (only?) real weapon in their arsenal is lockdown and other non-pharmaceutical interventions. A delay in issuing the AZ vaccine of a week to two weeks is neither here nor their for the vaccination programme as a whole.

The UK regulator isn't in the same boat, it's weighing up the ongoing availability of a large number of doses with inadequate contracts to meaningfully continue the vaccination programme as a whole. We'd be doing about 25% of the vaccinations throughout April if we were relying on Pfizer only. That puts the UK back months, hence the "it's safer to use it than not" is closer to black vs white.
jfman is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:16   #4165
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 11,985
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Coronavirus

Well they've signed it off now, so safe to use - until they find another reason not to use it.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:17   #4166
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,871
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
But what is the benefit in continuing to issue it for the EU?

AZ in the EU are miles behind in terms of deliveries and the bloc are months away from being in a position to meaningfully ease restrictions.

Right now the biggest (only?) real weapon in their arsenal is lockdown and other non-pharmaceutical interventions. A delay in issuing the AZ vaccine of a week to two weeks is neither here nor their for the vaccination programme as a whole.

The UK regulator isn't in the same boat, it's weighing up the ongoing availability of a large number of doses with inadequate contracts to meaningfully continue the vaccination programme as a whole. We'd be doing about 25% of the vaccinations throughout April if we were relying on Pfizer only. That puts the UK back months, hence the "it's safer to use it than not" is closer to black vs white.
None of that is within the remit of the national medicines regulators in any of the countries where decisions have been taken to pause rollout.

Unless you're suggesting that politicians in those countries are implementing decisions, and then using their regulators as cover to give an entirely different set of justifications? The regulators are not (or should not be) concerned with supply levels or other infection control measures. They should be concerned only with safety and efficacy.

Incidentally the EMA has also concluded its own review of the data, and states that the Ox-AZ vaccine is 'safe and effective.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56440139
Chris is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:25   #4167
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well they've signed it off now, so safe to use - until they find another reason not to use it.
But they couldn't run a press conference as the press couldn't hear them and vice versa at the questions stage. Some sort of brewery comes to my uncharitable mind.

Now it gets interesting. A newspaper somewhere will do the XS deaths maths arising from the vaccine pause.


__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.
Sephiroth is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:29   #4168
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,232
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

I'm not sure how, in a pandemic, a regulator is supposed to isolate supply from their decision making. The whole point is surely to reduce both prevalence and transmission across the population. A drug where supplies are unable to significantly do either must factor into whether the benefits outweigh the risks because the benefits and risks are intrinsically linked to what non-pharmaceutical are required.

As for politicians and regulators my cynicism knows no geographic bounds.
jfman is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:52   #4169
jonbxx
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,664
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I'm not sure how, in a pandemic, a regulator is supposed to isolate supply from their decision making. The whole point is surely to reduce both prevalence and transmission across the population. A drug where supplies are unable to significantly do either must factor into whether the benefits outweigh the risks because the benefits and risks are intrinsically linked to what non-pharmaceutical are required.

As for politicians and regulators my cynicism knows no geographic bounds.
This is why drug regulation is split up into strands. The first answers the question 'is the drug safe and effective'? This is the job of the MHRA, EMA, FDA, etc. The next questions is who can and can't have a drug, when and how? In most cases, the regulatory body such as the MHRA does this too. This is the Marketing Authorisation.

The third question is who are we going to give this to given the data of safety, effectiveness, side effects, costs, quality of life, etc. This is more a clinical decision. In the UK, NICE usually makes this decision though JCVI will in the case of vaccines.

My feeling is that the separation of these strands is important. With the safety and effectiveness being 'blind' and scientific and the clinical application being the more 'human' side.

Say for example, that the findings were that there was a slight increase in clotting issues. Then the Marketing Authorisation would be adjusted to state this and then the clinicians would take the risk/benefit decision. For example, if you have clotting issues, then the AZ vaccine is not the one for you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to add, investigating this was the right thing to do in my opinion. In vaccine sceptic groups, saying 'nah, it's fine' probably doesn't wash. Saying let's stop, have a look, check and act on the results is more likely to get past vaccine sceptics. Of course, it's not ideal as it slows down the roll out but one reports were out, it needed to be done

Last edited by jonbxx; 18-03-2021 at 17:58.
jonbxx is offline  
Old 18-03-2021, 17:57   #4170
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well they've signed it off now, so safe to use - until they find another reason not to use it.

Like they forgot to order it
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
papa smurf is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:48.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.