The state benefits system mega-thread.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

As an indication of support, there is a bit of a difference between 17.5 million voters and 27k petitioners...

Re your 'rehearsed Q&A', how does this fit in with all the attacks on Osborne et al in the media, or is that all part of an overall 'master plan'?

If you consider a master plan is, "how to control as much as possible the masses under the perception to the majority it's their choice whilst you do as you please" then sure call it a master plan for all governments, democratic or otherwise are no different in my eyes than the religionists of millennia ago.

I would look to your own ideals for an answer to that as your perception will probably be different to mine. You wont ever catch them being positively responsive to a hostile press and in the most part such hostilities of the press are made in their absence, the art is to manage the press in your presence to get your agendas across which Osborne clearly did here by tying a horrific act to his anti benefits agenda. To me at its most basic such press hostility comes with the territory and will always fulfill a purpose, and that purpose is as reliant for being anti agenda driven as it is for supporting them otherwise there would be no debate, and without debate the delusion of democracy is stone dead.

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Fact most people on sickness benefits do not have 6-25 children and live in state supplied mansions. Most honest and decent people on long term benefits are there not by their own choice and have worked, especially the ones genuinely there for life as we are usually victims of a variety of incidents that have cut our working life short, are living on the breadline and now cannot afford for our teenage children to even go to college since the Tories came in. The bursary fund is a joke of which most are ineligible for the full version, the reduced bursary is being improperly distributed and there is no body i have found to complain to. They cannot afford to look for work because we cannot afford to pay for them to find it and when they get something its likely to be a low end job with low pay, will not be able to sustain their own accommodation and paying board which we obviously cannot subsidize them the same way working parents can is a serious disincentive as it will leave them with little to nothing for themselves. That's the harsh reality of being in the position we have found ourselves in and to be continually demonized for such misfortune is abhorrent.

You want to catch the scammers fine, I am sure we all agree they need to be caught, I dare say there are and always will be plenty but for the rest of us not running judo or dance classes etc, are we not entitled to at least have some quality of life which will usually mean us trying to do what we can for ourselves and now cannot due to fear of being falsely deemed a cheater, and why don't our children have some chance of the decent opportunities yours have, and then you wonder why such entrapment appears inherited ?

Well I came from a hard working family in the most part as did my wife, and we have not spent all our lives on the dole, but now we are here due to considerable ill health I can clearly see why generations cannot get out of the trap, and the current lot so far have made matters worse for future generations not better.

[Gary L]

If you listen to each muppet from the government when they're talking about these benefit cuts. such as Dave, George, and Ian.
they're using psychological tactics.

each one will always say something like "we have the backing of the British public with this one"
they sometimes get a bit cocky and say "full backing"
it's to make you or I think twice about opposing it. as you say "well if everyone agrees with it, then I'm the only one that doesn't"

very clever mind games.

Look out for it next time one of the muppets are on the news.
when they're asked an awkward question or whatever. they'll start with something like "look... we have the full backing of the British public on this one"

they'll convince us all later that we all agreed to privatise the NHS and to give all MPs a million pound Xmas bonus each.
simply because it works.

whilst you're noticing that. tell me that Dave has got worse with his hand actions whilst talking.
he never used to do it.
that's another mind thing too.

has anyone also noticed that there wasn't a cold weather payment for the last week in April March. even though it was cold enough?
see.... they're in control of people that much that we're not even questioning it.

scary.

[devilincarnate]

Originally Posted by Gary L

has anyone also noticed that there wasn't a cold weather payment for the last week in April. even though it was cold enough?
see.... they're in control of people that much that we're not even questioning it.

scary.

Gary do you mean March as we have just started April or did your clocks go forward a month

Considering we are only in the first week in April, that's probably why there wasn't a payment for the last week in April....

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by devilincarnate

Gary do you mean March as we have just started April or did your clocks go forward a month

Someone has been messing with my clocks

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Considering we are only in the first week in April, that's probably why there wasn't a payment for the last week in April....

Yes, Hugh.
Thank you, Hugh.

[mertle]

GaryL maybe your area was not deemed according to DWP they paid 4m

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21895098

You got mindfull there cutoff read MP raise it said you cant predict when weather gets cold should not have timeframe.

[Gary L]

I don't claim it. I just check on http://pensions-service.direct.gov.u...yment/home.asp

where I am there's only been 2 periods. I was expecting there to be 3 in the last week.

Infact I think there were 4 periods last year. and look how cold it's been compared to last year. and the extended period of cold we have had compared to last year.

[mertle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...in-facts-myths

basically these figures show osbourne liar even sicken to bring up use dead kids as political tool.

The whole lies about welfare dependancy is complete fabrication especially in unemployed. Ok always small percentage but how much help those poor getting.

Whole host telling stats from how many kids people have to where the money goes.

lets start with the kids as this common trash at the moment.

Most welfare recipients only got 1, 2 0r 3 kids.

625k have 1
419k have 2
194k have 3
76k have 4
26k have 5
9k have 6
3k have 7
1k have 8
360 have 9
130 have 10
30 have 11
10 have 12/13

certainly not many large familes there is there usually 1 or 2 kids largely norm family. Do agree on excess cap but my concern what do you do with families work all life get redundant cant support them anymore what do they propose.

Now we look other peddled lies.

How big is the problem of families on benefits where generations have never worked?

well lests see foundation stats

patterns working age households.

generations both workless 1% yep only 1%

with one unemployed 17%

working households 82%

now for they never ever worked or when dont forget this is this 1%

neither generation worked 9%

five years or more last job but have worked 36%

2-4 years last worked 16%

1-2 years last worked 18%

in last year 21%


So infact only 9% of that one 1% is problem issue which we need to help sort out.
---------------------------------------------

There lot more stats in this which shows the coalition lies. Problem is the labour just bent with neo liberal atitudes so wont reveal these figures.

Someone in politics goto show UK people sadly people rather listen to lies rather do the investigation to seek out whether they being hoodwinked.

[Ramrod]

So 839 thousand families on benefits have 3 or more children....hmmm....and here's us keeping my family down to two children partly because of the cost of raising them. I suppose if we had simply decided to have the state pick up the tab we may have had more......
(simplistic, I know )

[dilli-theclaw]

20 little rammy's running round. now I'm going to have nightmares

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

So 839 thousand families on benefits have 3 or more children...

I make that 300,000?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

and here's us keeping my family down to two children partly because of the cost of raising them. I suppose if we had simply decided to have the state pick up the tab we may have had more......
(simplistic, I know )

Exactly. With my first on the way the Mrs and I are getting a swift reality check about our future finances.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by danielf

I make that 300,000?

yep 194k of that is 3 childen not 4 childen plus.

Certainly not reilms excessive when tie in the labour figures. There is some concerns at lower ends which do think its only tiny amount but it does effect alot in financial sense.

The problem is what do you do cut funds would create kids to starve surely this madness. We what force them to sell kids or put them in foster homes.

Just shows we not in reilms of loads of large families running amock on benefits. Coupled with stats of the unemployed there not excess of long term lifestyle dependent unemployed either.

Which means what are they refering to in that statement should we go around telling disabled they only allowed 3 years support. Oh I know few would love government to instigate that one. Yet those poor souls got long term or actually lifetime illnesses. Something coalition evils cant comprehend that there is illneses you will never recover or actually has very slow recovery rates. That some respond to treatment better others what one dont get side effects another does. That in some causes side effects can be very bad or not depending the drugs you take and combinations.

I thought guinenine disabled had nothing to fear was there election motto.

Now great if scientist use R&D and find drugs which cure or aid them to work lifting them off necessary support. Works and gives back poor old disabled a life back then great.

There is backward situation dont government refuse often drugs as they too expensive. Alot drugs like on postcode lottery too depending on NHS Trust another issue. Also have reduced support to R&D thus many the drug companies closing or cutting back on its R&D in uk. One such company recently.

http://www.thefinancepages.co.uk/com...50-jobs/04278/

So how we supposed to find the cures of the future which will help those to become alive. We cant just cut there supply of on wim catcall lifetime dependancy chuck them in the houses or carehomes out of society eyes. We cant mushroom society into one fits all scenerio.

So if they not on about disabled or clearly not unemployed by these figures who are they talking about as lifetime dependancy. Those who do right thing get job but the there chums cant be bothered or some guinine firms unable too to give proper living wage. Surely they not talking of our pensioners worked all there lives put stamp in now collecting there rightful state pension.

They love there pidgeon hole talk divide and rule stats dont stack up to there mouths.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

Exactly. With my first on the way the Mrs and I are getting a swift reality check about our future finances.

this it derek can you predict your future. Congrats on the little one when he/she due.

We can all try work finances but we dont know whats around corner.

We goto work and drink driver side swipes a car that worker now ends up disabled in wheelchair now struggles feed his family.

Worse the breadwinner ends up with cancer looses there life. The other partner never worked as they did not see point or was being house husband/wife looking after 3 kids that before they could afford easily. Now partner got 3 kids no skills for job prospects.

There realistic scenerios which played everyday of our lives.

We never know whats around corner nor does this stupid coalition.

What problem is lack of training and skills. Surely this is area we need to target get viable workforce for the modern UK. Army of aprenticeships partnership with government and business to identify where we lack and target these shortfalls. Less reliance then on bringing talent to uk.

For years we not done it as successive governments just fudge it with stupid courses/ideas which dont get reconised as businesses or dont train the person long enough.

We need to bring back the old apprenticeships.

Ugh that accent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhnQTxUP56I

Well I did not know until I watched Have I got News for You just how much of the welfare bill goes on pensions. The woman on there said 2 thirds but I thought no way not that much. 47% in the year 2011 and 2012 went on state pensions a whopping 74 billion with another 8 billion for pension credits taking it over 50% ESA and Incap stands @ a little over 8.5 billion the next highest is housing benefit that stands just below 19 billion which the pensioners will have some of also so the 2 thirds is looking about right. JSA stands at just under 5 billion

These are least hit by the cuts so as I have said all along al the gov are doing are urinating in the wind making the poorest suffer

reposted this here as its relevant. It is clear to me the biggest cost of welfare is the state pension all other individual benefits are a drop in the ocean compared.

Child benefit costs 12 billion a year working and child tax 30 billion. The cuts are hitting the wrong people. Means test the state pension those with good private pensions are still getting this. My old man gets 28 K a year private pension and still gets the state pension. There is imo a lot more to be gained from this cut than the tiny cuts to the poorest

Figures are starting to get real to me now and the propaganda and spin el gov have got most of you suckered into is starting to leave a bitter taste

You know why they wont ? votes simple as that