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Old 26-03-2020, 16:17   #1351
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Re: Coronavirus

Well when you think things can't get any worse.

My mum has the Coronavirus.
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Old 26-03-2020, 16:22   #1352
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
Well when you think things can't get any worse.

My mum has the Coronavirus.
l pray that your Mum will be okay Hom3r.
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Old 26-03-2020, 16:41   #1353
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I thought that the USP of The Independent was that they were supposed to be politically neutral and this should really apply to Brexit/the pandemic and everything else.
The Independent gave up being politically neutral years ago, when they realised that newspapers that lack a clear voice also lack a loyal readership.

It does not overtly associate itself with any particular political party, but its outlook is overwhelmingly socially liberal, economically internationalist soft-left and, on the European issue, it practically foams at the mouth for Remain.

The BBC is reporting the issue now, using its usual weasel words formula "The government is facing a backlash from MPs" as cover for trumping up the story. In fact, their report quotes two Liberal Democrats (Lib Dems still think we should be doing things jointly with the EU, shock horror) and the limp and ineffectual John Ashworth, who to be fair to him is Labour's heath spokesman for at least the next few weeks until his boss shuffles off to the allotment so we'll cut him some slack.

Again, the EU issue generates a lot of heat but very little light. There are still plenty of people who think anything done in concert with the EU must on a point of principle be better than anything we plan and execute for ourselves. They would have us believe that they are prepared to tolerate Brexit in normal times but they still think that in a crisis, our only hope is to go running back to Brussels.

HMG does not subscribe to that view and neither do I.
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Old 26-03-2020, 16:53   #1354
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Re: Coronavirus

Agreed.
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Old 26-03-2020, 16:59   #1355
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
The Independent gave up being politically neutral years ago, when they realised that newspapers that lack a clear voice also lack a loyal readership.

It does not overtly associate itself with any particular political party, but its outlook is overwhelmingly socially liberal, economically internationalist soft-left and, on the European issue, it practically foams at the mouth for Remain.

The BBC is reporting the issue now, using its usual weasel words formula "The government is facing a backlash from MPs" as cover for trumping up the story. In fact, their report quotes two Liberal Democrats (Lib Dems still think we should be doing things jointly with the EU, shock horror) and the limp and ineffectual John Ashworth, who to be fair to him is Labour's heath spokesman for at least the next few weeks until his boss shuffles off to the allotment so we'll cut him some slack.

Again, the EU issue generates a lot of heat but very little light. There are still plenty of people who think anything done in concert with the EU must on a point of principle be better than anything we plan and execute for ourselves. They would have us believe that they are prepared to tolerate Brexit in normal times but they still think that in a crisis, our only hope is to go running back to Brussels.

HMG does not subscribe to that view and neither do I.
There are those who think anything being done by the EU must be bad, and we must be able to do better ourselves.

I believe there is a major difference between "being offered help" and "running back to Brussels" - we should be doing what’s right for the NHS and those affected by the pandemic.
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Old 26-03-2020, 17:09   #1356
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
Well when you think things can't get any worse.

My mum has the Coronavirus.

my sister went to see her and was told to go to the quiet room, oh bugger she thought, that's when she was told the news.

My sister was allowed to tell my mum the news. She has the virus but no symptoms.

So my sister is self isolating, I was at work and tried to call my HR manager but I had to leave him a voice message.

I manage to speak to him when I got in.

The fun part is that under normal circumstances I would get a full wage, but self isolation means £94 per week.
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Old 26-03-2020, 17:18   #1357
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
There are those who think anything being done by the EU must be bad, and we must be able to do better ourselves.

I believe there is a major difference between "being offered help" and "running back to Brussels" - we should be doing what’s right for the NHS and those affected by the pandemic.
I agree Hugh and that's why I think a concrete order for 10,000 ventilators is better than concrete offers.
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Old 26-03-2020, 17:24   #1358
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
I agree Hugh and that's why I think a concrete order for 10,000 ventilators is better than concrete offers.
Surely both maximises the amount of ventilators?
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Old 26-03-2020, 17:57   #1359
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Surely both maximises the amount of ventilators?
it's a side issue, and not really relevant to to the current crisis
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:10   #1360
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
it's a side issue, and not really relevant to to the current crisis
On the contrary. You have, incorrectly, viewed this as a zero sum game. It may interest you whether a ventilator came from a European project or not, but I doubt those that will need them in the coming weeks will care for your ideology on their death beds.

I’d, like a rational person, take every ventilator going. British, European or sourced from elsewhere. The only thing irrelevant is where it comes from.

The good news is the Goverment share my view and are now participating in the European project.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
my sister went to see her and was told to go to the quiet room, oh bugger she thought, that's when she was told the news.

My sister was allowed to tell my mum the news. She has the virus but no symptoms.

So my sister is self isolating, I was at work and tried to call my HR manager but I had to leave him a voice message.

I manage to speak to him when I got in.

The fun part is that under normal circumstances I would get a full wage, but self isolation means £94 per week.
Best wishes to your family Hom3r.
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:16   #1361
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Re: Coronavirus

The Department of Health have announced that there are 115 more deaths in the UK, according to the latest figures , the total now is 578.

2129 new confirmed cases, total now 11,658.

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status...37209039396872
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:27   #1362
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
On the contrary. You have, incorrectly, viewed this as a zero sum game.
Nice phrase, do you know what it means? using it in this context would suggest you don't.

Quote:
It may interest you whether a ventilator came from a European project or not, but I doubt those that will need them in the coming weeks will care for your ideology on their death beds.
I don't have an ideology, I was merely suggesting that this was a side issue. The independent article was very short on any detail. i.e Amount of ventilators each state would get, when they would get them, cost etc, etc

A side issue that wasn't worth getting bogged down in.

Quote:
I’d, like a rational person, take every ventilator going. British, European or sourced from elsewhere. The only thing irrelevant is where it comes from.
I agree, I don't think anything said was contrary to that, apart from whether sourced via EU, via UK or via Both is a side issue.

Quote:
The good news is the Goverment share my view and are now participating in the European project..
like I said, side issue.
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:37   #1363
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Surely both maximises the amount of ventilators?
Does it? Doesn't the EU scheme effectively pool them across the EU. So a country that doesn't bother making them could've got them from the UK instead? Bit like fishing quotas.
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:41   #1364
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Does it? Doesn't the EU scheme effectively pool them across the EU. So a country that doesn't bother making them could've got them from the UK instead?
No. Nothing prohibits the UK from buying or manufacturing more.

As I’ve also said - it’s UK Government policy to participate in the scheme, so presumably our esteemed experts have decided this method maximises ventilators.

If UK suppliers wish to sell to an EU scheme that’s capitalism whether we participate in the scheme or not.

Last edited by jfman; 26-03-2020 at 18:48.
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Old 26-03-2020, 18:55   #1365
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
No. Nothing prohibits the UK from buying or manufacturing more.

As I’ve also said - it’s UK Government policy to participate in the scheme, so presumably our esteemed experts have decided this method maximises ventilators.
Wouldn't we be buying and/or manufacturing them in order to be distributed at the whim of the EU? Otherwise we would just be "stealing" from other EU countries that can't produce any of their resources, IE we would have our own resources and some from the EU. Can't see that being the case. We will have already had plans underway.






Can't see why people can't treat it like very bad weather and only go out reluctantly. They wouldn't go out jogging with several inches of snow or chucking it down with rain.
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