Catholic Church admits Bible is BS

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, you showed us the JW money and effort went mainly to other JWs, or to proselytise - well done, you…

No mate I think you need to simplify when you are being clever. I did not know what proselytise means so I googled it and it says

"convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another."

So to this point it is a no because our brothers and sisters have already made their choice so no need to change them

"advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

This also has to be a no because it is not advertised again only really those of us who already made the choice know about it. If we were pushing for recognition in what we did then you would see a lot more press on it

The way we preach is door to door spreading the message of the Kingdom or since Covid by letter writing spreading the same message

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I’d quite like you to break free from a cult that has ensnared you. The Watchtower Society is a cult that, erroneously, claims it alone can interpret the Bible.

If you think that my putting the boot into an organisation that is more concerned with its own network of “baptised publishers” than your welfare is attacking you personally, well I’m sorry about that but I’m not stopping. I can only hope in time you acknowledge the distinction.

you are not putting your boot into an organisation though as they are not here only I am. In fact you are doing exactly what Hugh say we do and you are proselytising trying to convert me

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

No mate I think you need to simplify when you are being clever. I did not know what proselytise means so I googled it and it says

"convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another."

So to this point it is a no because our brothers and sisters have already made their choice so no need to change them

"advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

This also has to be a no because it is not advertised again only really those of us who already made the choice know about it. If we were pushing for recognition in what we did then you would see a lot more press on it

The way we preach is door to door spreading the message of the Kingdom or since Covid by letter writing spreading the same message

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------



you are not putting your boot into an organisation though as they are not here only I am. In fact you are doing exactly what Hugh say we do and you are proselytising trying to convert me

No, mate, you need to read your own links…

https://thecounter.org/churches-usda...rch-and-state/

When asked if the organization was distributing to Jehovah’s Witnesses only, Hendriks said that the organization also delivers food boxes to non-believers who attend bible study or services.

In mid-June, Heather received a 20-pound box of produce from a local branch of the Jehovah’s Witnesses on behalf of her grandmother, an active member of the church. It held potatoes, onions, apples, and a cauliflower—and came with an unexpected letter: “Dear Brothers and Sisters: We are certain that you agree that all praise and honor goes to our great God Jehovah for his abundant provisions to us!” it read. The letter went on to ask that recipients “keep this gift confidential,” and encouraged them to accept the boxes, even if they did not need the food.

The box was one of 100 million distributed so far as part of the Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Farmers to Families Food Box program, the Trump administration’s flagship Covid-19 hunger relief initiative intended to provide emergency food aid to families in need.

The letter’s declaration that the boxes came from Jehovah—instead of taxpayers—represents a significant departure from standard operating procedure for federal food aid.

This may come as a shock to you (as you didn’t know what "proselytising" meant), but going door-to-door and writing letters is proselytism, as you are trying to persuade someone to change their religious beliefs or way of living to your own.

You may find this helpful.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/proselytize

To attempt to persuade someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.

To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

To try to convert (a person), especially to one's religion

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

No mate I think you need to simplify when you are being clever. I did not know what proselytise means so I googled it and it says

"convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another."

So to this point it is a no because our brothers and sisters have already made their choice so no need to change them

"advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

This also has to be a no because it is not advertised again only really those of us who already made the choice know about it. If we were pushing for recognition in what we did then you would see a lot more press on it

The way we preach is door to door spreading the message of the Kingdom or since Covid by letter writing spreading the same message

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------



you are not putting your boot into an organisation though as they are not here only I am. In fact you are doing exactly what Hugh say we do and you are proselytising trying to convert me

The Watchtower Society doesn’t have to be here for me to put the boot into them. The Watchtower Society is a cult that only lets its members read material it has directly approved and claims only it can interpret the Bible. My desire is that nobody be a member of it and that nobody think this is what being a disciple of Jesus looks like.

Real Christianity is an evangelistic faith - this should come as no surprise. It is however also driven by God’s compassion for the poor and oppressed and Christian mission societies do not typically put faith-oriented preconditions before helping those in material need. That is what Hugh pointed out: not that those ensnared in the Watchtower cult proselytise, which many faiths do, but that even when the lives of non-members are in peril, aid is conditional on engagement with cultic activities.

[Jaymoss]

you both really have no idea what it is like to be a Witness. I tell ya it is an awesome life. Really should never have engaged in this thread that is my mistake. Still I must say to be honest I have found I have a thicker skin than I thought I did. I feel I have done well in how I taken all this and how I have posted without rising to the bait. You pair not so much in my opinion

[papa smurf]

I think you should all sacrifice a goat and hurl it's entrails at a wall to see who's right

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I think you should all sacrifice a goat and hurl it's entrails at a wall to see who's right

Yes, but my church believes that the pancreas is the most important organ while that load of heretics down the street think it’s all about the spleen. What happens if both spleen and pancreas end up wrapped around the picture rail? Who’s right and what does it all mean?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Real Christianity.

I have nothing but respect for you Chris. I have always found you very sage, but those two words make me frown.

As I have stated on here many times I was brought up Roman Catholic, but I am now non-religious.

I have a JW Kingdom Hall, not far from me and they, as they do, call round and as I’m polite I engage with then and they leave the two standard publications. My favourite item was always “was it designed or was it luck”. Or something like that, as they failed to grasp what evolutionary theory was. They have their view on the story of Christ that may not chime with your view, but it’s their view.

But my ire with your comment is the inflection that my Christianity is better that your Christianity. We have the same god but you’re not doing it right. You’re not real.

In how many other areas in society, can that, and is that accusation often made?

That’s not “real” socialism, that’s not “real” communism, that’s not real Islam…. examples in point.

Those arguments can lead to extremism.

That very notion is the reason I’m non-religious.

This will be my first and only post in this thread.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I have nothing but respect for you Chris. I have always found you very sage, but those two words make me frown.

As I have stated on here many times I was brought up Roman Catholic, but I am now non-religious.

I have a JW Kingdom Hall, not far from me and they, as they do, call round and as I’m polite I engage with then and they leave the two standard publications. My favourite item was always “was it designed or was it luck”. Or something like that, as they failed to grasp what evolutionary theory was. They have their view on the story of Christ that may not chime with your view, but it’s their view.

But my ire with your comment is the inflection that my Christianity is better that your Christianity. We have the same god but you’re not doing it right. You’re not real.

In how many other areas in society, can that, and is that accusation often made?

That’s not “real” socialism, that’s not “real” communism, that’s not real Islam…. examples in point.

Those arguments can lead to extremism.

That very notion is the reason I’m non-religious.

This will be my first and only post in this thread.

Fair point, however I’m not appealing simply to what goes on in my own church on a Sunday morning here. I’m talking about orthodox Christianity that rests on the Nicene-Constantinople Creed, which is the refined, finally-agreed form of essential Christian belief that all Christian churches agree with. It has existed in its final form since the 4th century AD (though it reflects the teachings of the church fathers back to the first generation church) and has survived schism, reformation and all manner of conflict.

With a Catholic upbringing you may remember it; it begins “I believe in One God, the Father almighty”. Real Christianity, regardless of denomination, is in agreement with that creed. From time to time, throughout history, movements have occasionally sprung up that reject the creed. Most often they reject the Trinitarian parts, which confess that God is eternally Father, Son and Spirit, three and yet also one. Whatever disagreements different denominations have had, they have always agreed that the creed is a basis for agreement of what Christianity actually is.

I make no apology for asserting that a church that is in agreement with the creed is a Christian church, while an organisation that calls itself the only true church yet is not in agreement with the creed is, well, not.

The Watchtower Society is not a Christian organisation. Kingdom Halls are not Christian churches. Mormons are not Christians and their temples are not places of Christian worship. Unitarian churches, which historically have been the more common form of trinity-denying organisation in the UK, are not Christian churches.

You will find possibly quite surprising levels of cooperation between churches in British towns and cities these days, even amongst Protestant and Catholic, but wherever you find a “churches together” movement you will find that those churches associate on the basis of essential credal belief that necessarily excludes Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians, Christian Scientists, Spiritualists, and any other organisation that denies those basic beliefs.

[Jaymoss]

So along the years a group of imperfect men have decided what a true Christian is? Only opinion I am bothered about in the long run is Gods. He will judge me on my heart and decide if I will live or cease to exist. The God I pray to has no intention of anyone suffering for eternity

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Only opinion I am bothered about in the long run is Gods. He will judge me on my heart and decide if I will live or cease to exist. The God I pray to has no intention of anyone suffering for eternity

So ... the opinion of a mythical super being ?
So how excatly do you know what that opinion is ?

Oh, and "no intention of anyone suffering for eternity" ?
Did your particular god not invent a hell then ?

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Paul

So ... the opinion of a mythical super being ?
So how excatly do you know what that opinion is ?

Oh, and "no intention of anyone suffering for eternity" ?
Did your particular god not invent a hell then ?

Hell is not mentioned in the bible. Hades and Gehena are but no hell

Originally Posted by Paul

So ... the opinion of a mythical super being ?
So how excatly do you know what that opinion is ?

Oh, and "no intention of anyone suffering for eternity" ?
Did your particular god not invent a hell then ?

Denying the possibility of existence outside of God’s presence is another characteristic Watchtower teaching.

The Bible has a number of words which are all translated ‘hell’ in English, and while the English translation may lack nuance on occasion, the translation is more than adequate to convey the idea that in eternity, it is possible to exist either in God’s presence or banished from it. We typically describe these states as ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’.

Saying that the Bible never talks about hell is like saying Eskimos never talk about snow, just because they don’t have one catch-all word for it. However, the Bible absolutely does not talk about ceasing to exist, despite the ramblings of Charles Taze Russell, who the Watchtower Society regards as its founder . Where the Bible talks about death, it is always talking about separation, first the soul from the body and later, the ‘second death’ which is separation from God’s presence.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Hell is not mentioned in the bible. Hades and Gehena are but no hell

Also Sheol and Tartarus.

What does the Watchtower Society claim these four words mean?

[Jaymoss]

So you are content as a REAL Christian following the man who ended Mosaic Law and bought in the laws based on love to believe the God you follow is A. Going to allow Satan to survive? and B. Damn humans to eternal pain and suffering???

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

you both really have no idea what it is like to be a Witness. I tell ya it is an awesome life. Really should never have engaged in this thread that is my mistake. Still I must say to be honest I have found I have a thicker skin than I thought I did. I feel I have done well in how I taken all this and how I have posted without rising to the bait. You pair not so much in my opinion

You must have very long arms with all this patting yourself on the back…

Proverbs 27:2 :“May a stranger, and not your own mouth, praise you; may a foreigner, and not your own lips, do so.”

Matthew 23:12 "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You must have very long arms with all this patting yourself on the back…

Proverbs 27:2 :“May a stranger, and not your own mouth, praise you; may a foreigner, and not your own lips, do so.”

Matthew 23:12 "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

I am an imperfect human and make mistakes.

Well done Hugh for doing some bible reading. Something good has come from all this