Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S

[nomadking]

Why didn't Obama introduce restrictions? In this case and the Vegas incident, guns were bought legally BEFORE Trump came to office. Also in this instance guns were obtained ILLEGALLY. Laws won't stop that.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Why didn't Obama introduce restrictions? In this case and the Vegas incident, guns were bought legally BEFORE Trump came to office. Also in this instance guns were obtained ILLEGALLY. Laws won't stop that.

Aww come on nomadking, you know it's hypocrisy and a little bit of Trump Derangement Syndrome doing the rounds again.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Why didn't Obama introduce restrictions? In this case and the Vegas incident, guns were bought legally BEFORE Trump came to office. Also in this instance guns were obtained ILLEGALLY. Laws won't stop that.

Originally Posted by Mick

Aww come on nomadking, you know it's hypocrisy and a little bit of Trump Derangement Syndrome doing the rounds again.

Obama did sign an executive order to ensure those with mental illnesses were shown in background checks: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...e-and-make-our

Here is the NRA praising Trump for repealing that law: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ohibition-rule

Originally Posted by Damien

Obama did sign an executive order to ensure those with mental illnesses were shown in background checks: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...e-and-make-our

Here is the NRA praising Trump for repealing that law: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ohibition-rule

I pointed out previously that the rule that was put in place for mental health checks did not go far enough, there was two criteria which meant background checks were implemented specifically related to Social security benefits for Mental Health disabilities, it would not have stopped the Florida Shooter, had he not been receiving them or entitled to them.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

Obama did sign an executive order to ensure those with mental illnesses were shown in background checks: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...e-and-make-our

Here is the NRA praising Trump for repealing that law: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ohibition-rule

Cruz PASSED the mental health checks by the FBI.

Cruz purchased the Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle in February 2017 from Sunrise Tactical Supply in Coral Springs, officials said.
Cruz passed a background check, which looks at criminal history and whether someone has been found to be “mentally defective” by a court, said Peter Forcelli, the special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in South Florida.

February 2017 and Trump was barely in office.

Of the 343 people killed in Baltimore in 2017, 88 percent were killed with a firearm, including 295 with a handgun and six with a shotgun or rifle, according to Baltimore Police data released Wednesday
About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.
Of the guns used, the “overwhelming majority of them are going to be illegally possessed,” said T.J. Smith, a police spokesman.

How do guns laws deal with that?

Chicago

In 2017, the city had 2,785 shooting incidents and 3,457 shooting victims, which was a decrease from the 3,550 shooting incidents and 4,349 shooting victims in 2016, according to the newly released statistics.

There has been over 100 attempts to bring gun legislation to Congress since 2011.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-man...ed-since-2011/

One example

Four months after 26 people died, including 20 schoolchildren, in the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, a bipartisan proposal that would have required background checks on all commercial gun sales failed in the Senate.

The compromise reached by Sens. Joe Manchin, D-West Virginia and Pat Toomey, R-Pennsylvania, was probably the closest Congress has come to imposing limits on gun sales in the last decade. Their amendment failed in a 54-46 vote, falling short of the 60 votes needed to advance. Even if it had ultimately passed, though, then-Speaker John Boehner never said whether he would bring it up for a vote in the House. That same day, the Senate also rejected a proposal to reinstate the assault weapons ban by a wide margin -- in a 40-60 vote. The decade-long measure expired in 2004 and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1994.

In the last 24 hours, Trump has announced that he has signed a Memorandum instructing the Department of Justice to see if Bump Stocks can be outlawed, that is a start, as that stop Semi-Automatic Machine guns becoming fully automatic.

He is suppose to have announced today, age restrictions, that's another step in the right direction, a person cannot buy alcohol under the age of 21, but they can buy a gun. Plain wrong.

I said the other day, it's gone beyond the point to totally outlaw guns completely, because no gun amnesty will fully remove every gun from the streets of every State and that's nearly 1/3 of a billion guns and I don't think half of America will willingly part with them without causing a civil war.

Originally Posted by Mick

I pointed out previously that the rule that was put in place for mental health checks did not go far enough, there was two criteria which meant background checks were implemented specifically related to Social security benefits for Mental Health disabilities, it would not have stopped the Florida Shooter, had he not been receiving them or entitled to them.

I agree it didn't go far enough. I don't think Obama did enough. Still it was at least something and yet Trump stuck it down.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I pointed out previously that the rule that was put in place for mental health checks did not go far enough, there was two criteria which meant background checks were implemented specifically related to Social security benefits for Mental Health disabilities, it would not have stopped the Florida Shooter, had he not been receiving them or entitled to them.

So what has Trump's solution been ? Repeal the checks that were in place? What's he replaced them with ?

Originally Posted by nomadking

Cruz PASSED the mental health checks by the FBI.

So what?

Crimes still happen despite laws designed to stop them. This is an argument for better laws whilst at the same time understanding you can't stop every crime. You strike a balance where you can.

No thinks you can stop every shooting but we can try and stop them being such a regular occurrence.

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

In the last 24 hours, Trump has announced that he has signed a Memorandum instructing the Department of Justice to see if Bump Stocks can be outlawed, that is a start, as that stop Semi-Automatic Machine guns becoming fully automatic.

He is suppose to have announced today, age restrictions, that's another step in the right direction, a person cannot buy alcohol under the age of 21, but they can buy a gun. Plain wrong.

Good. It's a start.

I still think they need to treat guns like they treat cars. You need a licence and each gun must be registered. The licence is revoked if you're irresponsible with it, commit a felony or the police have reason to suspect you're violent.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There has been over 100 attempts to bring gun legislation to Congress since 2011.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-man...ed-since-2011/

One example

But at Sandy Hook, the guns belonged to his mother. No checks would have stopped that.

[Pierre]

Guns don't kill people... Rappers do.

Originally Posted by Mr K

So what has Trump's solution been ? Repeal the checks that were in place? What's he replaced them with ?

Hmm, I thought I had said earlier on, it is down to congress to legislate new laws and introduce such frank and proper background checks and changes, not the President.

We cannot just keep calling out Trump on this, Congress has to act to implement proper procedures and background checks, not silly flimsy rules that do not have full and frank en-catchment.

They can act without the President.

Remember..... Three Branches of Government Mr K!

Executive: That's the President and his Administration, he signs law in to force and enforces it.

Legislation: That's Congress, they are the ones who write law, say yay or nay, if they pass it, then it send it to the President to sign it in to law if he agrees to it, he has Veto power but it just gets passed back to the House and Senate, who then have a vote to pass it in to law, 2/3 vote required to pass in both chambers.

Judicial: Supreme and lower Courts. Ensures and interprets the Constitution and has the power to limit the above two Branches of government.

It seems Trump has just suggested teachers should have weapons: https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/st...36226118176768

Trump is now responding. He is proposing 'conceal and carry', where teachers would carry weapons and be trained to use them.

Trump on the hero coach who lost his life in Florida shooting: "If he had a firearm he wouldn't have had to run, he would have shot and that would have been the end of it."

[Onramp]

Some people are highlighting videos of students involved, telling the media that they didn't know what was happening because they had been told by officials that there would be a drill taking place that day. There is more than one such video. What this means is anyone's guess, but it emits a disntinctly fishy odour. Either those videos were faked in order to spread disinformation, or they're real and the students were really told that. As usual, we'll never know what actually occurred.