What do you think happens when we die?

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

My position is in no way sinister.<mega snip, like we used to do in the early noughties >

Of course it isn’t, and for my part I’ve never taken it as so.

My faith is in Jesus of Nazareth, whom I call saviour (‘Christ’ or ‘Messiah’ simply being Anglicisations of the Greek or Hebrew). Jesus was followed around by crowds of people sometimes well into the thousands. His closest friends and followers were always more than a dozen in number. And they asked him a *lot* of questions. Strangers would seek him out to ask him stuff. Sometimes they had sinister intent but even then he acknowledged and replied (though he could be very sharp tongued when confronted by religious hypocrisy).

I joined this forum to laugh at how pants NTL was. I stayed because I made friends, realised I could help people with various problems and because I found people who believe different things to me and like talking about it.

I snipped lots of stuff we can talk about some other time when I’m not trying to get ready for Eurovision.

[Hom3r]

I don't believe in any God or God's, but I try not to offent others who may believe.

I do watch a lot of Ancient Alien type programs and having seen many I can see where a belive in Gods came from.

They say thinks like:

"Fire breathing dragons"
"Flying chariots"

Things they saw we could say sound like planes etc.


they generally used terms to things they knew about.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

Sometimes though, people may not want to speak about things that are very personal to them. This could be for many reasons. And whilst I too would have many questions for Jaymoss about why they have faith at all and what they believe, there has been a clear request by Jaymoss not to be put in a position where they are questioned about the faith / belief.

<snip>

So no, I do not have a position that dictates we should not ask because it might offend someone (people can be as offended as they like - that's up to them and not my problem. There's no rule against offending people as it is very subjective), I do respect a position that when someone says they do not wish to talk about something personal to them, stop pushing

The sinister part is this: Jaymos originally posted:

I am a Christian although some fellow Christians will not accept me as one but that is a debate I do not want to have on this forum

I never questioned him on why some fellow Christians will not accept them. Fact. Yet you mispresent me (again) as "pushing" someone after the fact. I replied once to his original post. I then said:

I'm not fighting. I thought this is a forum where you can debate people's arguments, opinions and statements. If the OP doesn't want this here then fair enough. If you do not want to respond to my questions then, again fair enough.

You need to re-read the thread ... and apologise.

Actually it’s me that needs to apologise - I think Jay is reticent to discuss faith here because on a recent occasion I was severely lacking in grace when discussing differences between what I call Christianity (as practiced by Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists etc) and what he calls Christianity, (as practiced by Jehovah’s Witnesses). The differences are very real but there’s a right and a wrong way to handle them.

(Sorry Jaymoss)

[jfman]

The obvious answer is of course you get taken into a side room once you are through the pearly gates and they hand you a single box with all the streaming services in one place, with one search function capturing all the content.

Originally Posted by jfman

The obvious answer is of course you get taken into a side room once you are through the pearly gates and they hand you a single box with all the streaming services in one place, with one search function capturing all the content.

Mate - seriously?

I’m willing to give credence to the einherjar in Valhalla eating their fill of the beast Sæhrímnir, and drinking mead from the udder of the goat Heiðrún, and I’m more than happy to accede to the possibility of seven samāwāt or Shamayim, or the Svarga being guarded by Airavata, with Kamadhenu, the cow of plenty, as well as Parijata, the tree that grants all wishes…

But all the streaming services in one place with a holistic search function? You stretching the bounds of credibility there…

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

Actually it’s me that needs to apologise - I think Jay is reticent to discuss faith here because on a recent occasion I was severely lacking in grace when discussing differences between what I call Christianity (as practiced by Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists etc) and what he calls Christianity, (as practiced by Jehovah’s Witnesses). The differences are very real but there’s a right and a wrong way to handle them.

(Sorry Jaymoss)

Thank you for that Chris I appreciate it. I too apologise for how I reacted, I do tend to go off on one, it is part of my mental health symptoms but that is no excuse.

[Halcyon]

A question I was thinking about this morning was...What about animals?


We do share so many similarities with many animals. Do they go to heaven too?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sounds like oxygen starvation of the brain to me that can give a euphoric effect. It is a bit reassuring that at the end of life the human body gives you a natural high.

This is a good point. And probably explains the recurring saimilar stories that people talk about when they've been brought back from the brinks of death.

[idi banashapan]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You need to re-read the thread ... and apologise.

I don't believe an apology is warranted from myself, nor would serve any positive purpose and would do nothing more than reinforce your psuedo self belief that you have been somehow wronged (which quite frankly, I don't think you believe at all - you're just trying to create an illusion. Poorly). You clearly have an objective in this thread, which is targetted at Jaymoss. Trying to make out you are the victim is not going to work. You are not the victim, you are the antagonist here;

Originally Posted by ianch99

No comments on opinions, got it.

Originally Posted by ianch99

BTW, it is probably the OP's place to decide that "this thread is about opinions not a debate". He may well agree with you but shouldn't he be the one saying this?

Originally Posted by ianch99

I'm not fighting. I thought this is a forum where you can debate people's arguments, opinions and statements. If the OP doesn't want this here then fair enough. If you do not want to respond to my questions then, again fair enough.

I don't think it's unreasonable that one might read the above quotes, especially in the context of the comments they respond to, as somewhat intentionally antagonising or at the very least 'poking the fire'.

The first quote above is clearly a mis-representation of the point being made, creating a false, hyperbolic misunderstanding that mocks the statement or request it is responding to. Put politely, you're just taking the piss. At which point, you are doing nothing more than trying to draw Jaymoss into the discussion they already said they do not want to have, because you are digging to hit an emotive response. It's a bit Strawman.

The second quote you diverted attention away from your previous comments and behaviours and onto something else. Kind of "It's not my fault I'm saying this - go speak to that guy, he makes the rules.". It's like you're trying to brush your shoulders as you shrug them, turn down the corners of your mouth and throw your hands out to the sides palms up. However, you are in complete control of what you say, it's not someone else's fault, and if you get called out on something, don't try blaming it on others - you are accountable.

The third quote is again an attempt to elicit a emotional response based on a shoulder shrug, and a claim of ignorance to your prior comments. Again, I think you need to realise your accountability here. You shroud the comment of "I thought this is a forum where you can debate people's arguments, opinions and statements." with faux respect and acceptance of Jaymoss' comments and requests not to debate the faith by following up with "If the OP doesn't want this here then fair enough. If you do not want to respond to my questions then, again fair enough." but your intent has already been made clear throughout most of your prior comments in the thread.

You have been consistently attempting to provoke and draw into a discussion a person who has already been clear in their wish not to discuss a certain topic. Just leave it.

TL;DR

• Stop trying to provoke Jaymoss
• You are not the victim here
• When you get called out on something, accept it

I'd also like to add that I don't think 'sinister' means whatever you think it means.

[Rik]

Nothing happens!

When you are gone you are gone, that is the opinion of this Born Again Athiest
I would like to think we meet up with all our deceased relatives and friends but I dont believe we do. When we are gone we are gone thats it!

(PS RIP Andy Rourke Bassist from The Smiths who passed away yesterday)

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

I don't believe an apology is warranted from myself, nor would serve any positive purpose and would do nothing more than reinforce your psuedo self belief that you have been somehow wronged (which quite frankly, I don't think you believe at all - you're just trying to create an illusion. Poorly). You clearly have an objective in this thread, which is targetted at Jaymoss. Trying to make out you are the victim is not going to work. You are not the victim, you are the antagonist here;





I don't think it's unreasonable that one might read the above quotes, especially in the context of the comments they respond to, as somewhat intentionally antagonising or at the very least 'poking the fire'.

The first quote above is clearly a mis-representation of the point being made, creating a false, hyperbolic misunderstanding that mocks the statement or request it is responding to. Put politely, you're just taking the piss. At which point, you are doing nothing more than trying to draw Jaymoss into the discussion they already said they do not want to have, because you are digging to hit an emotive response. It's a bit Strawman.

The second quote you diverted attention away from your previous comments and behaviours and onto something else. Kind of "It's not my fault I'm saying this - go speak to that guy, he makes the rules.". It's like you're trying to brush your shoulders as you shrug them, turn down the corners of your mouth and throw your hands out to the sides palms up. However, you are in complete control of what you say, it's not someone else's fault, and if you get called out on something, don't try blaming it on others - you are accountable.

The third quote is again an attempt to elicit a emotional response based on a shoulder shrug, and a claim of ignorance to your prior comments. Again, I think you need to realise your accountability here. You shroud the comment of "I thought this is a forum where you can debate people's arguments, opinions and statements." with faux respect and acceptance of Jaymoss' comments and requests not to debate the faith by following up with "If the OP doesn't want this here then fair enough. If you do not want to respond to my questions then, again fair enough." but your intent has already been made clear throughout most of your prior comments in the thread.

You have been consistently attempting to provoke and draw into a discussion a person who has already been clear in their wish not to discuss a certain topic. Just leave it.

TL;DR

• Stop trying to provoke Jaymoss
• You are not the victim here
• When you get called out on something, accept it

I'd also like to add that I don't think 'sinister' means whatever you think it means.

For the record, please link to the posts where he:

- requests not to debate the faith
- been clear in their wish not to discuss a certain topic

and then the posts where I am:

- consistently attempting to provoke and draw into a discussion a person who has already been clear in their wish not to discuss a certain topic

Really weird that you deliberately mis-represent the facts repeatedly. You literally did not read the posts I referred to and have decided to go down this rabbit hole of self-righteous indignation.

If that is how you get your kicks then so be it.

[Jaymoss]

Ian FFS can you not just drop it man. You talk about getting kicks it is plain this is how you get yours

Or Admin any chance you stop this crap that has nowt to do with the topic?

Can we please stick to debating the TOPIC and stop talking over the heads of other posters or trying to speak for them.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Ian FFS can you not just drop it man. You talk about getting kicks it is plain this is how you get yours

Or Admin any chance you stop this crap that has nowt to do with the topic?

I'll stick to the topic. I am just defending myself which seems fair to me.

Enough now ...

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Rik

Nothing happens!

When you are gone you are gone, that is the opinion of this Born Again Athiest
I would like to think we meet up with all our deceased relatives and friends but I dont believe we do. When we are gone we are gone thats it!

(PS RIP Andy Rourke Bassist from The Smiths who passed away yesterday)

I would tend to agree with you here. We grow up making decisions based on the objective evidence before and what we can see, hear, etc. If the apple falls from the tree there is, in all probability, a physical force compelling it. There are a myriad of examples of evidentiary events that help us to understand the world and here's the important point, predict the behaviour of things in the future.

We know that when a plane attempts to take off that it will, in all probability, achieve flight because we understand the physics involved. We have the evidence and the understanding to predict the future of this plane.

We do not have any evidence to predict what we happen when we die so if we apply the evidence-based approach that has guided us through life, we must conclude that nothing will happen.

[Chrysalis]

Surprised this is been discussed.

When I have thought about this in the past here is my view.

I did read a website someone made who explained before we were born at some point we were nothing, we didnt exist, so the fact we were born from been nothing, and if we do become nothing when we die, it means been reborn is possible, that makes sense to me.

I am not religious, but I am also not close minded, so I believe anything is possible, there is many things scientists cannot explain, and probably will never be able to explain.

I think as an example after the body is declared dead there is a fair chance of still been able to think, that process might be totally out of sync with the time passing by in the outside world.

Also consider during deep sleep we have no recollection of that time, its as if we didnt exist for that time period, same issue with people with memory health problems. But in both cases existence is there, its just not remembered.

I will admit I am scared, partially of the process of death itself but also the thought of simply not existing freaks me out, but luckily I dont think about this all the time.

If you were to ask me if I was to bet on the most likely outcome, it perhaps would be you die, then a second later you waking up as a new born living thing, but not necessarily as a human. Kind of when you fall in and out of deep sleep, all sense of time is lost. However of course as a new born all past is gone. So as who we are now we would be done, but as some kind of living thing, not necessarily.

Near death experiences are all over the place so cant really draw a conclusion from those, some people report everything going off, others report stories like floating in the air, seeing their loved ones etc.

I used to think I would want my brain to be preserved with nutrients and oxygen fed to it, as been able to think means I still exist in some way, but it then was pointed out to me, imagine been able to think but realise you cant wake up, realising you dead. So now I am not so sure, and of course if there is a after life or process of been reborn, been preserved in that way would prevent that.