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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 24-07-2008, 23:06   #12676
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter N View Post
You have to very careful with that sort of action. It could constitute a Denial of Service attack and apart from the possible criminal offence there is the risk of being branded as Cyber-Terrorists.
I don't think a few extra calls is going to bother BT/Virgin Media/Talk talk. But if you think it's a bad idea to do it in one day, then we could spread it out. Like Phormwatch says, if we collect names, then we will know if the call centre staff are inphormed or instructed to claim ignorance.
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Old 24-07-2008, 23:25   #12677
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Has anyone tried to visit www.webwise.co.uk ???

Seems the site is an educational one for languages

http://www.webwise.org.uk/

again for students

then there is

http://webwise.me.uk/

like this one he is already to stop phorm stealing his products
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Old 24-07-2008, 23:30   #12678
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

It's not about bothering them - my concern is handing them a golden opportunity to put themselves into the role of victim and us into the role of bullies. They aren't going to worry too much about the extent of any actual damage done if they use it for PR.

There's no harm in customers contacting ISPs but we must be seen to be beyond reproach or we lose. If BT had been up front about what they were doing, these discussions would have taken a very different direction and we don't want to fall into the same trap so we don't need to "pretend" anything.

Just ring around for quotes and ask straight-forward questions. There's nothing wrong with that as we are all just considering our choice of ISP like anyone else.
 
Old 24-07-2008, 23:54   #12679
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Well I didn't like the replies I was receiving from VM so I decided to vote with my money and took it off to another ISP. IMPO that is the only way to show them move from them to other ISPs that give you assurance they will not use phorm/webwise..

So far any ISP on Entanets network since Entanet are against phorm, Zen who have some LLU in Rochdale and own pipes again against Phorm...

When it comes to the line we pay thjem for a service if the service changes and we are unhappy with the change then we move.
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Old 24-07-2008, 23:54   #12680
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I don't really see how they could come across as the victim, firstly I can't see the number of calls being that big, secondly we will be asking legitimate questions. What would they say, "we are experiencing delays due a large number of calls about Phorm/Webwise"? This would only raise awareness amongst BT customers about Phorm/Webwise. If we drop the pretence bit and just ask legit questions then, surely thats what the call centre is there for.
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:02   #12681
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

It became questionable as soon as the suggestion was made on a public forum that members of that forum should "pretend". As a suggestion that anyone who speaks to operators should swap note there is no problem.

You have to be very careful about what you post on a forum that we know is being watched and which is a matter of public record.

Stick to doing everything in an open, honest way and we keep the high ground.
 
Old 25-07-2008, 00:03   #12682
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Also I was wondering, why did Roman Gaufman(aka Hackeron) leave 121Media/Phorm?

He was(according to his CV) a key player in a company thats being touted as the future of on-line advertising.

From his web footprint, he appears very involved in the FOSS community. Maybe he had a conflict of ethics/opinion with Kent Ertugrul.

Why would someone leave a company in such a key role so early on, when surely it could have made them very rich? Could it be that he was made aware of the legality of what he was doing and jumped? Maybe he just wanted to be his own boss.
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:06   #12683
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by serial View Post
What's peoples thoughts that on a specific day we all call BT pretending we want broadband but ask specifically about concerns over Phorm/Webwise. If the customer rep doesn't know anything about it, we inPhorm them. Then another day we do Virgin Media and another we do Talk Talk?

This would certainly raise discussion in the call centres.

And if these forums are watched as closely as we know they are, maybe the call centres will be briefed in advance.
In my (limited) experience standing at the entrance to their offices around the country and just giving the employees a flyer about it would be more effective. I've seen it done before and it works well. The corporation won't have any issues if it is done at the entrance (iedeally not actually on their land) but so long as done politely - no issues. And the flyer might get to more than one employee inside. It forces a corporate internal memo about the issue.

Oh - and of course this does not just inform the call centre front line team... it gets the message to everyone (granted some won't read it and some managers will read it later, maybe in a loo later, when no one sees them taking any interest)
 
Old 25-07-2008, 00:12   #12684
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse View Post
As I briefly mentioned in post #12585 I suspect there is something a little fishy with Virgin Media's relationship with phorm/webwise and I think while we are waiting for BT news we could attempt to find out the bigger picture of what Virgin Media has also been up to via the FOI act.

Any idea's for good precise questions we should ask for a starter for 10?
Unfortunately, the freedom of information act only applies to public bodies. Private companies are under no obligation to disclose anything they don't want to unless ordered to do so by a court or their particular industry regulator. Somehow, I don't think Virgin Media is going to volunteer any information to the public domain on the subject of it's involvement with Phorm...

---------- Post added at 23:12 ---------- Previous post was at 23:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter N View Post
It became questionable as soon as the suggestion was made on a public forum that members of that forum should "pretend". As a suggestion that anyone who speaks to operators should swap note there is no problem.

You have to be very careful about what you post on a forum that we know is being watched and which is a matter of public record.

Stick to doing everything in an open, honest way and we keep the high ground.



{thinks: anyone reading this post might think I was Pro-Phorm. I'M NOT.}
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:25   #12685
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter N View Post
It became questionable as soon as the suggestion was made on a public forum that members of that forum should "pretend".
Agreed, I was just posting a quick idea off the top of my head, the "pretence" part was clearly stupid.
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:40   #12686
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucevans View Post
Unfortunately, the freedom of information act only applies to public bodies. Private companies are under no obligation to disclose anything they don't want to unless ordered to do so by a court or their particular industry regulator. Somehow, I don't think Virgin Media is going to volunteer any information to the public domain on the subject of it's involvement with Phorm...
...cut
Are you saying that we cannot put FOI questions to the ICO or the HO and get them to release any relevant FOI documents that are related to Virgin Media seeking any advice or having any conversations with them via email or otherwise over the Phorm/Webwise issue??? That is what my original question was aimed at.
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:44   #12687
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse View Post
Are you saying that we cannot put FOI questions to the ICO or the HO and get them to release any relevant FOI documents that are related to Virgin Media seeking any advice or having any conversations with them via email or otherwise over the Phorm/Webwise issue??? That is what my original question was aimed at.
You CAN ask, but they MIGHT (quite likely) decline to answer on the grounds of the commercial impact on the company concerned... So best to "start" with a less specific question perhaps.

Like: How many companies have requested advice... When was the advice requested and what date were answers provided? What advice was given? The answers you get tell a story and help you frame your next more detailed and carefully worded question to get the facts needed.

You also have to be careful that you don't ask too many questions or difficult to answer questions otherwise they can decline due to the cost of responding fully (which seems fair enough since I pay taxes!!)
 
Old 25-07-2008, 00:45   #12688
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Not stupid - it's just my cynical mind that sees possible problems before they arise and like everything else on these forums it's about discussing ideas and refining them.
 
Old 25-07-2008, 00:45   #12689
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
You CAN ask, but they MIGHT (quite likely) decline to answer on the grounds of the commercial impact on the company concerned... So best to "start" with a less specific question perhaps.

Like: How many companies have requested advice... When was the advice requested and what date were answers provided? What advice was given?

You also have to be careful that you don't ask too many questions or difficult to answer questions otherwise they can decline due to the cost of responding fully (which seems fair enough since I pay taxes!!)
That is why I initially asked for the advice regarding the precision of the questions that should be asked
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:48   #12690
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Has anyone just asked VM if they've conducted any trials or installed any equipment?
 
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