Brexit discussion

Apparently the way these tenders work is those deciding aren't allowed to see who made the bids? In other words they may not have known it was a French company. You would hope so because it is a bit mad to make the passports blue as a symbol of taking back control whilst moving passport production to Europe.

That said I don't really care. If France gave the best bid then good for them. We let them run our nuclear power stations and the Germans run some of our trains.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How so? What contradiction? If we are going to perform on the world stage, we need to be competitive.

However, I do find it amusing that people who want to embrace the EU don't want France to get this work! This cracks me up!

l am not a fan of the EU but l ain't no fan of Brexit either but its happening and that is it so the least we can do is start to put our companies first as Germany and France would most certainly do that in their own backyard.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Thursday morning, the chief executive of De La Rue, Martin Sutherland, challenged the prime minister or the home secretary to “come to my factory and explain my dedicated workforce why they think this is a sensible decision to offshore the manufacture of a British icon”.

The Labour MP John Spellar said “no other EU country behaves like this”, claiming others “support their industry”. Such decisions had driven the Brexit vote, he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nco-dutch-firm

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are beginning to sound like a certain Mr Trump, Den, and I never thought I'd say that to you!

My thoughts about Donald Trump are not repeatable on a family forum OB.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

Apparently the way these tenders work is those deciding aren't allowed to see who made the bids? In other words they may not have known it was a French company. You would hope so because it is a bit mad to make the passports blue as a symbol of taking back control whilst moving passport production to Europe.

That said I don't really care. If France gave the best bid then good for them. We let them run our nuclear power stations and the Germans run some of our trains.

'Taking back control' means making our own decisions, not doing everything ourselves. Brexit for me means trading freely with the rest of the world, as far as possible without tariffs. Some tariffs are fine if it stops countries flooding the market, although I would prefer quotas to resolve these issues.

Once you start dictating which countries are permitted to print your passports, you are engaging in unacceptable trade practices, in my opinion. By allowing the rest of the world compete, you are also helping poorer countries, who have been kept in their place by the EU.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

'Taking back control' means making our own decisions, not doing everything ourselves. Brexit for me means trading freely with the rest of the world, as far as possible without tariffs. Some tariffs are fine if it stops countries flooding the market, although I would prefer quotas to resolve these issues.

Once you start dictating which countries are permitted to print your passports, you are engaging in unacceptable trade practices, in my opinion. By allowing the rest of the world compete, you are also helping poorer countries, who have been kept in their place by the EU.

I agree that we shouldn't keep things in Britain for the sake of it. Although France are hardly poor.

I think fair enough if they're better placed to the make the passports.

Just pointing out the irony of moving production to France at the same time as the largely symbolic act of changing the color back to blue is happening.

[Carth]

I guess British workers could go live in France in order to get work making the passports, isn't that what some of you have been bleating about . . the free movement of workers?

Originally Posted by Carth

I guess British workers could go live in France in order to get work making the passports, isn't that what some of you have been bleating about . . the free movement of workers?

Not according to this Brexiteer...

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...border-control

One of the issues decided in December, when we reached agreement with the other 27 EU members over the so-called phase one of Brexit negotiations, was how this transition period would affect the idea of free movement.

The deal was clear.

Free movement – specifically the right of any EU citizen to move to the UK and stay here to work – would end on the day after our withdrawal in March 2019.

Don’t take my word for it.

To quote Paragraph 8 of the agreement: “The specified date [for the end of free movement] should be the time of the UK’s withdrawal.”

That’s clear and unambiguous.

Free movement ends at the end of next March.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not according to this Brexiteer...

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...border-control

Well, that Brexiteer happens to be incorrect. If everything is agreed, free movement will cease at the end of the transition (implementation) period. Not popular for some, but not a deal breaker either.

[1andrew1]

Could this passport debate be a non-issue? Apparently the French company has factories in the UK which it will use and some UK passports now are made in Europe under the current contract. And the UK could have opted for navy anyway. Burgundy was recommended for machine-reading purposes but not obligatory.

For the majority of brexit voters a french company winning the contract isn't a problem as we have never wanted to distance ourselves from our many friends in europe we just want out of the EU which despite having european in it's name is not the be all and end all of europe. If anything this contract demonstrates the type of future we want although i know over the last year brexit voter's have been labelled as little Englander's and borderline xenophobes which is not representative of a large section of brexit voter's.

In future there will be many projects that european nation's undertake for us and we for them free trade that benefits us all now we just have to get the blowhards on both sides to recognise that.

[1andrew1]

Another irony of the passport contract is that the British incumbent De La Rue sounds pretty French to me!

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Another irony of the passport contract is that the British incumbent De La Rue sounds pretty French to me!

The founder was from Guernsey, as British as tea and cakes, fish and chips, cricket on village greens, etc.

The whole passport thing was somehow bound to happen wasn't it? As soon as this went out to tender, there was always the risk that British companies might be undercut under 'Most Economically Advantageous Tender (MEAT) rules.

Unfortunately leaving the EU won't help as WTO GPA rules also require competitive global tendering.

France doesn't allow other countries to make its' passports but that's because it doesn't put out the contract to tender as the government has its' own printing house. The HMSO was privatised in 1996 which is why we need to outsource passport printing.

It's funny how De La Rue is saying it's wrong that British Passports are made by a foreign country when De La Rue make passports and ID cards for many other countries - http://www.delarue.com/global-insights/case-studies

[heero_yuy]

The French also cited National Security and that is a get out clause that means you don't need to obey tendering rules.

So long as the actual work is done in the UK, as seems likely, it's not really an issue?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

The French also cited National Security and that is a get out clause that means you don't need to obey tendering rules.

So long as the actual work is done in the UK, as seems likely, it's not really an issue?

It really shouldn't be an issue anyway. It's good if the passports could actually be made in this country, but by no means essential. Why pay more for work to be done here if it can be done more cheaply, more efficiently and with all quality requirements met elsewhere?

It's up to us to keep productivity standards up so that we can compete in the world, and that will be more important than ever in the post Brexit era. Good thing, too.

[heero_yuy]

Quote from iNews:


Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable was left humiliated on Thursday after eight European Union leaders denied giving their support to his call for a second Brexit referendum.

The Lib Dems had issued a statement claiming the backing of eight liberal prime ministers from EU countries, such as Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark, only for the group to distance themselves hours later.

Embarrassingly, Miro Cerar, one of the leaders named as giving his backing, stood down as Prime Minister of Slovenia earlier this month.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It really shouldn't be an issue anyway. It's good if the passports could actually be made in this country, but by no means essential. Why pay more for work to be done here if it can be done more cheaply, more efficiently and with all quality requirements met elsewhere?

It's up to us to keep productivity standards up so that we can compete in the world, and that will be more important than ever in the post Brexit era. Good thing, too.

As I said yesterday, they will be made in the UK so much ado about nothing.

Gemalto, which is in the process of being acquired by French defence contractor Thales, has a number of sites in the UK and is expected to make the new passports at factories in Fareham and Heywood.

https://www.ft.com/content/e1578076-...a-7e7563b0b0f4