Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Please don't hang your hat on semantics when you know exactly what I mean. It's a metaphor for their rigid interpretation of the 4 freedoms. You've heard of metaphor, haven't you?

Jeez - you are being awkward just when I'm trying to close the gap between us.

So those 4 things they said were non-negotiable at the beginning of the talks are still non-negotiable?

Quelle surprise...

And we’ve been so flexible...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It all depends on what deal is negotiated. If a product has been certified by British certification firm with a CE mark it becomes invalid in the event of no deal as the certification firm is in a third country and can't be overseen by EU bodies. There could be a deal to avoid this but some things are hard to avoid if you're not in a single market. Trade deals commonly require the product you're exporting to have a certain level of local content. This makes sense, otherwise a developed company could do something like add a steering wheel to a Chinese made car and claim it's local.
For EU-made products, the local content can be from anywhere in the UK including the UK. When we leave the EU, our products won't be part of that percentage. Therefore, EU manufacturers may have to substitute British-made parts for EU-made parts to access trade deals.

So how do non-EU countries deal with CE certification? The manufacturers are the ones that state whether it is CE certified or not. There are cases currently where products are imported that are not safe. Just goes to show it's a bogus issue on the part of the EU. In theory a German firm can manufacture items which don't meet EU regulations, as long as they don't sell them in the EEA. In theory somebody in Ireland will be able to go to NI, and buy an item that is not CE certified, but is ok for sale in the UK, if the UK changes any rules. No different to the current EU setup. Somebody could travel to the US and bring back a non-CE certified product, all legal and above board. As far as the EU should be concerned, there should be no issues with this, until and if the UK changes any product rules. Chances are any UK rules will be broadly similar or above and beyond any EU rules. Little point in a manufacturer making a product that is ok to sell the UK, but not in the EU.

If anything we are the ones with potential to complain if we have higher product standards, but have to allow lower standard EU products to be sold here.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So how do non-EU countries deal with CE certification? The manufacturers are the ones that state whether it is CE certified or not. There are cases currently where products are imported that are not safe. Just goes to show it's a bogus issue on the part of the EU. In theory a German firm can manufacture items which don't meet EU regulations, as long as they don't sell them in the EEA. In theory somebody in Ireland will be able to go to NI, and buy an item that is not CE certified, but is ok for sale in the UK, if the UK changes any rules. No different to the current EU setup. Somebody could travel to the US and bring back a non-CE certified product, all legal and above board. As far as the EU should be concerned, there should be no issues with this, until and if the UK changes any product rules. Chances are any UK rules will be broadly similar or above and beyond any EU rules. Little point in a manufacturer making a product that is ok to sell the UK, but not in the EU.

If anything we are the ones with potential to complain if we have higher product standards, but have to allow lower standard EU products to be sold here.

Here's an article on what might happen on the subject of CE marking port Brexit - https://machinerysafety101.com/2018/...presentatives/

Basically, some directives require the 'Authorised Representative' who assures and issues the CE marking to be based in the EU. Post Brexit, it may be the case that the UK based Authorised Representatives are no longer authorised so CE marking issued by these people may no longer be valid. There's no trust in regulated environments, it's all 'prove it' and show how you proved it robustly. It's these horrible regulatory things that keep me in a job (though in medicines rather than CE marking)

You are right that the UK may well keep standards at or above the requirements of the EU directives. There is a great deal of working internationally to try and harmonise standards as the cost of different standards is significant for manufacturers. The International Council for Harmonisation of Technical Requirements for Pharmaceuticals for Human Use (ICH)is a good example of this, bringing together Europe, the US and Japan initially with many other joining.

However, the alignment of standards is political as well as technical. It's part of the reason TTIP stalled.

Products are certainly made in the EU without CE marking for export markets. These products are considered to not be 'placed on the market' in the EU. There are some differences between UL certified machinery and CE marked items for example. I have had customers try and buy UL certified machinery for export to the US and we are simply unable to sell them in the EU as they are not items 'placed on the market' and therefore illegal to sell.

BREAKING: Prime Minister Theresa May to give Statement to MPs in the House of Commons later this afternoon, after Brexit talks break down in Brussels yesterday. (It's an unusual move - she always gives a Statement after an EU Summit, not before one).

Probably just another 'tough talk' to show the EU we mean business rather than an election, resignation or whatever.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Probably just another 'tough talk' to show the EU we mean business rather than an election, resignation or whatever.

Or giving away N Ireland the Hebrides and Lands end.

[OLD BOY]

A lot of hyperbole. Let the politicians play. Just watch with amusement. Don't forget to look surprised when, after everyone thought everything was lost, an incredible deal is announced.

[Hom3r]

I wish I had the maney to take out a gagging order baning NS from mentioning staying in a customs union or words to that effect.

Leaving the EU means leaving that.

It matters not that the Scots voted to stay, the majority voted leave.

I didn't vote Tory in the General Election, so can I demand another vote?

But beacuse of Brexit I doubt I'd vote Labour while JC is in power.

Tories are also doubtful due to my local Tories stance on same sex relationships, as you may know my niece cam out last year and I couldn't look her in the face after voting for him.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A lot of hyperbole. Let the politicians play. Just watch with amusement. Don't forget to look surprised when, after everyone thought everything was lost, an incredible deal is announced.

can you see it getting passed parliament OB I cant see how any deal can and DUP want cliff edge no deal now and parliament wont vote for that either

[jonbxx]

This is of course the ‘easiest deal in history’ so at least it’s good practice for the tougher ones down the line after we have left.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

I wish I had the maney to take out a gagging order baning NS from mentioning staying in a customs union or words to that effect.

Leaving the EU means leaving that.

It matters not that the Scots voted to stay, the majority voted leave.

I didn't vote Tory in the General Election, so can I demand another vote?

But beacuse of Brexit I doubt I'd vote Labour while JC is in power.

Tories are also doubtful due to my local Tories stance on same sex relationships, as you may know my niece cam out last year and I couldn't look her in the face after voting for him.

You may get one in the very near future but definitely by 2022.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

This is of course the ‘easiest deal in history’ so at least it’s good practice for the tougher ones down the line after we have left.

Ha ha. I think we have all read some other myths too:
"They need us more than we need them."
"The Irish border problem is a myth dreamt up by remainers"
"The motorway works on the M26/official government documents are just Project Fear"
"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade"

[Dave42]

No deal Brexit 'more likely than ever before' says European Council president Donald Tusk

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3962561.html

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A lot of hyperbole. Let the politicians play. Just watch with amusement. Don't forget to look surprised when, after everyone thought everything was lost, an incredible deal is announced.

In the context of Brexit, what would an incredible deal constitute?

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Ha ha. I think we have all read some other myths too:

"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade"

I saw an interesting graphic from the FT showing 759 international agreements globally between the EU and third countries. Mindblowing.

Pasting the links from Google which hopefully should work;

https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-...4-9023f8c0fd2e
https://ig.ft.com/brexit-treaty-database