Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Shin Gouki]

I want to be able to completely opt out of this and use VM BB like phorm does'nt even exist.

I want nothing to with Phorm!

If this does'nt happen then i will leave VM and never use any other Virgin product ever again!

[flowrebmit]

How does the Phorm technology embedded within the ISPs network not see the IP address of each customer when it analyzes the TCP/IP packets of data?

[none]

QUESTION: It’s stated that opt out works by the presence of a cookie, therefore how can people who chose not to allow persistent cookies opt out?

Furthermore, the Data Protection Act gives consumers a clear right to dictate how their personal information is used, (beyond data processing necessary in providing the service to the user) by expressing their preferences in writing to the Data Controller of their ISP.

QUESTION: How will Phorm detect where people have, under provisions of the Data Protection Act, written to the Data Controller of their ISP expressly withdrawing permission to process their personal data?

[tech team]

Hello Toto,

We would be very happy to have our systems undergo a privacy audit by E&Y or another auditor in the UK. We are in the middle of a Privacy Impact Assessment (for info on PIA please see the Information Commissioner Office site: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...l/1-intro.html which is being conducted by Simon Davies (80/20 Thinking / Privacy International) and we will work with him and his team throughout the year to ensure we adhere to the highest standards of privacy.

I think that our involvement in adware is an issue for some people. However we fully stand by everything we did in that business. We quickly realised however, that it was near-impossible for people to distinguish between adware and spyware and that we did not want to continue in the desktop area. We made the unprecedented move of then voluntarily shutting down that business model, which was worth $5-6 million a year to us, in order to pursue an ISP model.

We realise that some people will not accept that as an explanation. But we also believe there are enough people out there who recognise that technology innovation is about change, trying stuff out, getting it wrong and trying again until you get it right. And we feel that our solution today is really right -- and a big leap forward for privacy.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

Yes Shin Gouki, you can permanently opt out and your internet experience will be exactly as it is now.

Best wishes

Techteam

I don't know how long tech team has left to answer any questions but those that still have a question that needs answering - I will be collecting such questions and forwarding them to Phorm to answer via e-mail. Once received, I will post back their replies here. So if you haven't got an answer yet, I will try my best to get you one from Phorm. Thanks. Let's really try to keep this a civil debate. Ranting and demanding answers will not get anyone anywhere.

Also - Please try not to ask a question that has already been answered. One question that seems to be being repeated is the Opt out having no data tracked. To clarify, Phorms word is that no tracking is carried out if customers have chosen to opt out.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Mick

I don't know how long tech team has left to answer any questions but those that still have a question that needs answering - I will be collecting such questions and forwarding them to Phorm to answer via e-mail. Once received, I will post back their replies here. So if you haven't got an answer yet, I will try my best to get you one from Phorm. Thanks. Let's really try to keep this a civil debate. Ranting and demanding answers will not get anyone anywhere.

Also - Please try not to ask a question that has already been answered. One question that seems to be being repeated is the Opt out having no data tracked. To clarify, Phorms word is that no tracking is carried out if customers have chosen to opt out.

Mick i understand what you say. I need to know at what point it stops. IE me or the kit. Because if its the kit then i am still being tracked.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Mick i understand what you say. I need to know at what point it stops. IE me or the kit. Because if its the kit then i am still being tracked.

[none]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Mick i understand what you say. I need to know at what point it stops. IE me or the kit. Because if its the kit then i am still being tracked.

indeed.

they say you opt out and your data no longer passes through Phorm at any stage, yet i read elsewhere that just is'nt the case - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/05/bt_phorm_trial/

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

However, according to a spokesman for Phorm, the way the opt-out works means the contents of the websites you visit will still be mirrored to its system

Just sounds like we are being played as chumps, though thats my own personnel opinion.



Its also been mentioned here (first post, top of page) - http://community.plus.net/forum/inde...opic=61201.112

Originally Posted by MysteryFCM

This isn't actually true ....... whilst Phorm hardware exists on the ISP's network, the browsing data and everything else going to/from your computer, is passed to the central Phorm servers (located OUTSIDE of the ISP's network).

Additionally, you may want to mention to them that it's been pointed out time and time again that opted out or not, everything going from/to your computer, is still logged by the Phorm servers (just as it's always been logged by the ISP's servers (contrary to their claims)).

which is why I was so very very specific in my simplistic wording of my original question relating to what data gets passed to Phorm.

So you'll will have to excuse my skepticism to the answers we've received so far as they have in no way made me feel any better about this whole affair.

[Florence]

I use a browser that allows me to block adverts on websites also blocks popups.. I chose my firewall /virus killer to help protect my privacy.

Stopping Malware in its Tracks

ESET Smart Security prevents, detects and removes malware such as adware, bots, rootkits, spyware, Trojans, viruses, worms and other Internet threats you face on the job, at home and everywhere your computer goes.
Proactive Protection: Award winning Threatsense technology combines multiple layers of detection protecting you from internet threats before it's too late. The included antispam and personal firewall features provide you with a total security solution.

If I decide I want to buy over the internet I like to search research and select the best option for me.

From all I have read and I have been reading a lot I also listened to the video from the CEO, I feel from all that is being said is trying to convince us we all need this phorm.... I feel this is more an invasion of my privacy, my freedom of choice and human rights. Phorm is offering under the disguise of protection targeted adverts... You say you give a random number then target adverts to this on my browsing habits... Your system could end up giving more false adverts than correct biased on what people use the internet for.

I moderate a busy forum in this role i sometimes search to help members with problems, source equipment for best deals. not for me personally just to help out on the forum.

Phorm would then target me with all sorts of unwanted adverts due to this browsing which in turn would get annoying to time the customer.

1. What guarantees can you give us VM customers that this will not happen?

2, Why is it classed as security when all you are really doing is gathering information to send us adverts?

3. If this was only security then why will VM earn money from this instead of paying for this?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by none

indeed.

they say you opt out and your data no longer passes through Phorm at any stage, yet i read elsewhere that just aint the case - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/05/bt_phorm_trial/

Just sounds like we are being played as chumps, though that's my own personnel opinion.



Its also been mentioned here that (first post, top of page) - http://community.plus.net/forum/inde...opic=61201.112

which is why I was so very very specific in my simplistic wording of my original question relating to what data gets passed to Phorm.

So you'll will have to excuse my skepticism to the answers we've received so far as they have in no way made me feel any better about this whole affair.

That's why i don't think i will get a straight answer if any. If i do it will be a carefully worded pile of spin.

Having had a pc infected in the past with what they like to spin as adware in fact it was Spyware according to the Norton software that tried to remove it. I don't want there software anywhere near my pc or its connection.

If i don't get a answer i will take it as a confirmation that even when OPTED OUT my data WILL be tracked but i just will not see the adds. I will then disconnect all my service to VM and get a bt phone line, Sky TV and BE for my Internet. That's a lot of money that Virgin Will lose from me. I think it will be more than what they would have made selling my private information to Phorm. aka 121 media

[none]

Originally Posted by Sirius

That's why i don't think i will get a straight answer if any. If i do it will be a carefully worded pile of spin.

Exactly.
Do people honestly think they will get a straight answer from a company that has a proven track record in the spyware making game?

Originally Posted by Sirius

If i don't get a answer i will take it as a confirmation that even when OPTED OUT my data WILL be tracked but i just will not see the adds.

That is exactly my thoughts, even when your opted out, your still in, you just won’t see target ads, but you will however still be owned by Phorm.

Having read some other articles mentioned on this thread i am sorry i don't believe what phorm is saying thier track record doesn't give me any reason to have trust in them. As such i return to my previous position if VM do this they lose me as a customer.

It is bad enough this system is even being contemplated but fobbing off people with talk of an extra layer of security is dishonest. I have stayed with this thread and will continue to do so but i will not comment anymore as there is nothing left for me personally now but to wait and see what happens and then act accordingly.

[Sirius]

I would like to say thank you to Phorm for answering my main question by running away from it .

As soon as i now receive that letter saying that Virgin will be selling my info to a SPYWARE company I will exercise my 30 days notice

Well Done Phorm

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Having read some other articles mentioned on this thread i am sorry i don't believe what phorm is saying thier track record doesn't give me any reason to have trust in them. As such i return to my previous position if VM do this they lose me as a customer.

It is bad enough this system is even being contemplated but fobbing off people with talk of an extra layer of security is dishonest. I have stayed with this thread and will continue to do so but i will not comment anymore as there is nothing left for me personally now but to wait and see what happens and then act accordingly.

Yep well said. There is nothing now other than moving my service to a non Spyware laden ISP.

[none]

Should have also mentioned that right here on this very board they said that

“If you are not part of the system ie opted out no data will be processed by phorm. I really hope that's clear.”

Mmm yes clear... clear as mud.



See here (comment 15) - http://www.bobpiper.co.uk/2008/03/theyve_got_phorm.php

Kevin H said:
March 6, 2008 6:03 PM | permalink
Phorm admits that even if you opt out, they still receive all of your browsing habits, the cookie simply tells them not to use it.

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT take on face value what this company tells you.

Im with Sirius and RizzyKing, VM introduce this, then I too will be acting accordingly.

[TheBruce1]

Originally Posted by tech team

I think that our involvement in adware is an issue for some people. However we fully stand by everything we did in that business. We quickly realised however, that it was near-impossible for people to distinguish between adware and spyware and that we did not want to continue in the desktop area. We made the unprecedented move of then voluntarily shutting down that business model, which was worth $5-6 million a year to us, in order to pursue an ISP model.

Unbelievable, what about the people who had the misfortune to have the Apropos Rootkit installed by 121Media now called Phorm, looks like your still in the spyware game.

As others have stated, you have failed to answer the question regarding the cookie, will this still be on my or any other users machine, even if i(and i will)opt out.

For Phorm and the ISP`s this is about money and greed, nothing more.