04-09-2018, 15:07
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#1126
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,429
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
some read the leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was.
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Here's the leaflet:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ns-if-we-leave
Can you highlight where it is "explaining exactly what brexit [is]"?
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04-09-2018, 15:30
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#1127
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
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There is no point in even trying to communicate with a mind so closed to leaving the EU as yours is so i will continue not bothering to try .
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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04-09-2018, 15:49
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#1128
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,429
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
There is no point in even trying to communicate with a mind so closed to leaving the EU as yours is so i will continue not bothering to try .
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Now now, play nicely
When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..
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04-09-2018, 20:12
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#1129
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
FFS stop trotting this bollocks out.
It was stipulated in a leaflet posted to every house in the nation that leaving the EU meant leaving the Single Market and the customs union.
If you didn't read it and/ or understand.........tough.
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Maybe we can solve this one if you can help point out to Mr K where it is in the leaflet now that Ian has kindly located it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
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Last edited by 1andrew1; 04-09-2018 at 20:40.
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04-09-2018, 22:27
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#1130
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Maybe we can solve this one if you can help point out to Mr K where it is in the leaflet now that Ian has kindly located it.
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It clearly says that staying in the EU guarantees staying in the single market, whereas leaving doesn’t.
It clearly states that no country out of the EU has been granted access to the single market without paying into the EU, acccepting EU laws and free movement of people.
It also goes on to state that being outside the single market and not being able to agree a deal we would have to negotiate a new FTA which could take a long time.
The leaflet is very clear that we cannot leave the EU and stay in the Single Market at the level we are now. It clearly states that we would have to negotiate access to the Single market which is not guaranteed
Clear to anyone that can read.
---------- Post added at 22:26 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
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The whole leaflet explains what the probable outcomes are following a leave vote - which bits don’t you understand and i’ll Try and help you.
---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Now now, play nicely
When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..
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Who lied?
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Last edited by Pierre; 04-09-2018 at 22:23.
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05-09-2018, 05:10
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#1131
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Now now, play nicely
When people lie, I will challenge it. You may accept alternative facts, I don't ..
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Pierre is 100% correct. Given that every household is supposed to have received the guvmin funded leaflet, they/most/some might have even read it.
It is quite clear from ordinary meaning of the leaflet, that if we voted leave, we would lose whatever "benefits" the guvmin was trying to sell.
52% of those voting chose to reject the guvmin's enticements to remain.
You should not be calling Pierre a liar particularly as I can't call that "piss head" Juncker a "turd".
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05-09-2018, 09:28
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#1132
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10 yrs same company 😁
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Expanding Town with crap roads
Age: 64
Services: ? BB, basic phone. Share of Disney+
Posts: 7,665
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
It clearly says that staying in the EU guarantees staying in the single market, whereas leaving doesn’t.
It clearly states that no country out of the EU has been granted access to the single market without paying into the EU, acccepting EU laws and free movement of people.
It also goes on to state that being outside the single market and not being able to agree a deal we would have to negotiate a new FTA which could take a long time.
The leaflet is very clear that we cannot leave the EU and stay in the Single Market at the level we are now. It clearly states that we would have to negotiate access to the Single market which is not guaranteed
Clear to anyone that can read.
---------- Post added at 22:26 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------
The whole leaflet explains what the probable outcomes are following a leave vote - which bits don’t you understand and i’ll Try and help you.
---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------
Who lied?
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Problem always was with the referendum, the remain group could only sell the status quo. A dull factual booklet has no catch phrases.
The leave group seemed to sell the voters whatever they liked, which in the case of Farage included his belief of staying in the single market.
Then there was the NHS money and immigration, all nice simple things for people to vote for. Immigration was always under UK control the government was just very bad at dealing with it.
People really need to look at who actually lied.
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05-09-2018, 10:31
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#1133
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
Problem always was with the referendum, the remain group could only sell the status quo. A dull factual booklet has no catch phrases.
The leave group seemed to sell the voters whatever they liked, which in the case of Farage included his belief of staying in the single market.
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on the contrary, Farage has always been against staying in the single market
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-anna-soubry
Because he knows that staying in the single market means signing up to the four freedoms and ECJ jurisdiction.
Quote:
Then there was the NHS money and immigration, all nice simple things for people to vote for. Immigration was always under UK control the government was just very bad at dealing with it.
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The government was and still is, able to control non-EU immigration. Which it is bad at.
It is not able to control movement of EU nationals, however it did have the option of delaying freedom of movement to the new eastern European members that the Labour Gov at the time declined to do.
The NHS statement was catchy campaign headline nothing more.
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05-09-2018, 10:46
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#1134
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10 yrs same company 😁
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Expanding Town with crap roads
Age: 64
Services: ? BB, basic phone. Share of Disney+
Posts: 7,665
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
on the contrary, Farage has always been against staying in the single market
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-anna-soubry
Because he knows that staying in the single market means signing up to the four freedoms and ECJ jurisdiction.
The government was and still is, able to control non-EU immigration. Which it is bad at.
It is not able to control movement of EU nationals, however it did have the option of delaying freedom of movement to the new eastern European members that the Labour Gov at the time declined to do.
The NHS statement was catchy campaign headline nothing more.
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It is not what he or Hannan were saying at the time.
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05-09-2018, 12:50
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#1135
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Ice Cold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, Seacroft
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
At the moment there is so much crap floating about it's more confusing than it was before we voted.
I don't even think the EU know what they are doing let alone the UK. This is a test case of a country leaving the EU. It's never been done before especially a country that has been in a long time with so many financial ties.
Leaving which I still vote on will damage the UK as much as it will damage the EU. They need to find a middle ground that won't start the ball rolling for others in the EU to take the same route which I understand from the EU side of it.
However if the chain snaps then it shows how weak the EU project really is and I think they know this.
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05-09-2018, 13:13
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#1136
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
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Indeed - from your link
Quote:
And when you remember that Norway are in the Single Market but not the EU, it makes these quotes quite awkward reading.
“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing
—Nigel Farage, Ukip leader
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05-09-2018, 13:27
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#1137
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
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sorry, there's nothing in that article that pins Farage as saying he wants the UK to stay in the single market
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05-09-2018, 13:28
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#1138
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Gavin has it.
They are scared schmittless that others might sooner or later leave their poxy project.
Btw, the reason that the European Parliament is so pro-federation is that they’ll trump national parliaments. The Fourth Reich so to speak.
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Last edited by Sephiroth; 05-09-2018 at 13:29.
Reason: Typo
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05-09-2018, 13:31
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#1139
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Indeed - from your link
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That is not Farage advocating staying in the single market.
That is Farage commenting on the happiness of two countries.
That is the author putting two things together to try and make a story.
If Farage was quoted as saying:
“Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing, ...........and it's because they're in the single market"
—Nigel Farage, Ukip leader
Then you might have had something, but he didn't, and you don't.
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05-09-2018, 16:01
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#1140
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,236
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...premium-europe
Quote:
The British and German governments have abandoned key Brexit demands, potentially easing the path for the U.K. to strike a deal with the European Union, people familiar with the matter said. The pound rose.
Germany is ready to accept a less detailed agreement on the U.K.’s future economic and trade ties with the EU in a bid to get a Brexit deal done, according to people speaking on condition of anonymity because the discussions are private. The U.K. side is also willing to settle for a vaguer statement of intent on the future relationship, postponing some decisions until after Brexit day, according to an official who declined to be named.
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The fudge is coming
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