Will Scotland Leave the UK?

No Thanks signs are being targeted by vandals. There are far worse than this one, but they wouldn't be suitable for posting on a family friendly forum:



Yay for the Yes campaign, it's all about building a democratic Scotland, just as long as you vote the way they want you to.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chris

Yay for the Yes campaign, it's all about building a democratic Scotland, just as long as you vote the way they want you to.

The yessers are definately getting more militant and louder by the day, I really can't wait for this to be over with a result that ends the debate for a good long time.

Indeed.

Meanwhile I hope the boys in blue are at least making an attempt at tracking down the vandals - many of the signs in the central region have been done in exactly the same way, with silver spray paint and the same charming expletive. It looks as if there's a by determined little Gnat out there, who could do with having his wings clipped.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek

The yessers are definately getting more militant and louder by the day, I really can't wait for this to be over with a result that ends the debate for a good long time.

I doubt it will. If the numbers who vote Yes are high then I can't see anything other than a great deal of resentment on both sides. They'll carry on whining about how the vote was only swayed by big bad English money blah blah blah and there'll be a great many English who won't soon forget all the anti-English sentiment the Yes mob have encouraged. I hope Bravemouth will be proud of his legacy...

Some interesting points in today's Times (behind paywall).

The former chief medical officer has said Alex Salmond is wrong to claim that a “yes” vote in the referendum would boost NHS Scotland.

Sir Kenneth Calman told The Times that the issues had become “confused” — and pointed out that Holyrood already had control over health spending. His intervention came as new figures show that the NHS in Scotland has spent almost £1 billion in three years sending patients for private treatment. The data are acutely embarrassing for the first minister, who has claimed that the private sector had been eradicated from the health service north of the Border....

...The NHS has become a last-minute battleground ahead of September’s referendum, with the first minister stating this week that it was the issue which was “shifting most votes”.

He and his ministers argue that the NHS is being privatised in England and that this will have a knock-on deleterious effect on Scottish spending. However, the NHS budget is not being cut at Westminster and Holyrood already has full control over health — allowing it to rely as much or as little on the private sector as it sees fit.

Later on in the article, you can almost hear the sound of straws being grasped.

Sir Harry Burns, until recently chief medical officer for Scotland, said last month that independence had the potential to improve Scots’ health. He said: “The question is, would people in an independent country feel more in control of their lives? If they did, then that would be very positive for their health.”

Sums it up, really....

[Derek]

This debate is embarrassing, the chair is useless, the audience is clearly loaded with guesses and the usual student politic mentalists and Salmond is just shouting over Darling.

Never in a million years did I think STV would do a better job in a debate than the BBC.

Still at least we know if iScotland doesn't get it's way they will walk away from any accumulated UK debt. Just as well rUK doesn't have a veto over EU / NATO membership and the division of rUK institutions.

Glen Campbell deserves a P45 for that riot. Utterly hopeless, and the BBC clearly still has the same old problem with its audience screening that has dogged Question Time for years.

The STV chair had no problem selecting balanced comments from his audience - are we to believe that the 50% supposedly No-supporting audience members tonight suddenly all lost their voices?

[Mr Angry]

Oh dear.

Uncomfortable as it may be "71% find Alex Salmond victorious in second Scottish independence debate".

And a Nobel prize-winning economist has accused David Cameron's government of bluffing over its opposition to a currency union with an independent Scotland.

Cameron, so interested in the UK that he sent an opposition MP to lead the debate / defence of the union.

Speaks volumes.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Uncomfortable as it may be "71% find Alex Salmond victorious in second Scottish independence debate".

He can certainly shout louder. It was a better performance than the last one but he is still dodging the hard answers and wanting people to make a hugely important decision, from which there is no backing out and turning back, based on guesswork, finger crossing and hope.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

And a Nobel prize-winning economist has accused David Cameron's government of bluffing over its opposition to a currency union with an independent Scotland.

Is suppose he would, being an advisor to Salmond, regardless the overwhelming will of rUK, the clear view of all rUK political leaders and most other economists is a formal currency union won't happen.
Plus either with Sterling or the Euro iScotland wouldn't have full control of its currency and wouldn't be independent as I see it.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Cameron, so interested in the UK that he sent an opposition MP to lead the debate / defence of the union.

It was a debate between e leader of the two sides of the campaign. If Cameron had come it would have been even more of the 'Oooh evil Tories, food banks, privatisation! Etonian! Thatcher!' than we saw last night.

The Tories are hugely unpopular with the media and political activists up here, even if the numbers they got in the last election weren't a huge way away from the SNP and the leader of them appearing would have boosted the votes from those that think Braveheart is a historically accurate documentary.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Derek

The Tories are hugely unpopular with the media and political activists up here....

As indeed is Salmond in some quarters.

All to play for now.

[Pierre]

Just a couple of things floating about in my head about the currency debate.

If it's Scotlands pound too. Then surely it's rUK's Oil & Gas too?

Any decision on a Sterling zone, must be based on the will of the rUK population. which I'm sure would be a big fat no.

anyway all this debate has done is to get under the skin of even the most easy going of English people. I think the anti-English sentiment that is no bubbling to the top, may take some time to dissipate after this is over, in the event of a no vote.

In the event of a yes vote, I think there will be a monumental surge in anti-Scottish feeling that may never go away.

I think it will be close. I really hope the polls are all wrong and the yes's have been grossly over estimated. I hope the no's come out and smack them down.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I really hope the polls are all wrong and the yes's have been grossly over estimated. I hope the no's come out and smack them down.

I don't. A 'no' vote still won't shut Salmond and the rest of his crew up. They think they know everything, have this foolproof plan, I very much hope they get to execute it, and Scotland, the UK, and the rest of the world see just how paper-thin and baseless their claims were.

But unfortunately, they'll just blame the big bad English/Tories/Labour/fill in scapegoat of choice....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But unfortunately, they'll just blame the big bad English/Tories/Labour/fill in scapegoat of choice....

They'll do that whatever the result but at least if they get their own way us Sassenachs will be shot of them and can sit back and enjoy Salmond's inevitable demise from Bravemouth into Shutmouth.

It's up to the Scots now and if they're stupid enough in large enough numbers to buy into Salmond's pipedream, more fool them. The SNP's bargaining power has in large part been due to the desire of the UK government to avoid a break up. If that decision is made for them, however, I expect Salmond's going to find the negotiations and get a whole lot tougher and concessions start to dry up.