Brexit (Old)

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Mick

They need us more than we need them and nothing you or any other Remainer opinion piece says, will change that view I hold, ever!

I do not need the EU and never will - I revoke my EU Citizenship right here and now, I do not want it and to be associated with a filthy, undemocratic and totally corrupted union, AKA the EU!!!!!!!

no matter how much you say it will never make it true it not

Originally Posted by Damien

https://news.sky.com/story/europe-re...-them-11462776

All bollocks and conjecture.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

no matter how much you say it will never make it true it not

Don't use the same lines I did to you - get original.

It is true to me - end of discussion.

[Mr K]

Extending the 'transition', well who have thought it ?? . This isn't worthy of a pantomine plot, it's all too predictable sadly.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Until what ?

We remain in the Customs Union in a never ending 'transition period', still in the EU in all but name, but with no say or influence and still bound by EU rules? Costing us billions more upon the extra billions this whole shambles has already cost us ?

[Sephiroth]

@Angua -You've ignored the most important point that I made. The European MEPs want their parliament to trump ours (and other national parliaments) as a consequence of federalisation. How democratic is that in terms of the UK and our way of thinking?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Extending the 'transition', well who have thought it ?? . This isn't worthy of a pantomine plot, it's all too predictable sadly.

Being a stable educated sorts, Mr K - surely, you mean Pantomime ?

Oh yes, the topic - What's predictable is the EU trying to shaft the UK for as long as it can get away with it, it's been doing it for decades, so another couple of extra months won't matter to them, all courtesy of weak and pathetic Remainer Civil Servants, currently aiding and abetting the Prime Minister, who is acting like an unstable thicko.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@Angua -You've ignored the most important point that I made. The European MEPs want their parliament to trump ours (and other national parliaments) as a consequence of federalisation. How democratic is that in terms of the UK and our way of thinking?

We still have our own laws. Our government were and are responsible for who comes here and who gets benefits. The fact our own government cannot be bothered to sort out something so simple. Yet you are more concerned about being a parochial little island, rapidly decreasing in importance, just so we can avoid being part of something bigger and more united by what they have in common, than divided by hatred and fear.

I for one would rather be inside and influencing, than outside and waving impotently.

Pragmatically I know we will leave the EU, I am just bewildered by how angry some leave supporters still seem to be.

[Mr K]

Maybe its just a rubbish idea that's going to cause the country a lot of damage Mick? There's no getting away from that, the best we do is delay and fudge.TM knows it, every sensible mainstream politician knows it. We're just delaying in the hope someone else will sort this all out for us, they won't.

Originally Posted by Angua

Pragmatically I know we will leave the EU, I am just bewildered by how angry some leave supporters still seem to be.

And herein lies the issue - the astonishment that a democratic decision taken, is taking years to implement.

I truly would love to say I live in a free and democratic society, where citizens vote for something and it is implemented without hesitation.

Lots of dithering going on by Remainers trying to convince rest of us leavers, we made the wrong choice. This is bordering on a dictatorship.

Originally Posted by Mick

And herein lies the issue - the astonishment that a democratic decision taken, is taking years to implement.
.

It was always going to take a while. Even before the referendum people were told Article 50 was two years.

Undoing years of ties is not easy.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

And herein lies the issue - the astonishment that a democratic decision taken, is taking years to implement.

I truly would love to say I live in a free and democratic society, where citizens vote for something and it is implemented without hesitation.

Lots of dithering going on by Remainers trying to convince rest of us leavers, we made the wrong choice. This is bordering on a dictatorship.

Much of the publics disenchantment with governments of all stripes is how little most support the winners manifestos. Party members are the only ones who have some say and these seem to have become very dictatorial on both sides of the house.

We are and have been governed by minorities for decades.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

https://news.sky.com/story/europe-re...-them-11462776

There also another very important stat.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...contributions/

This statistic shows the EU Member States' share of total contributions to the European Union budget in 2016. While most of the EU countries contributed shares between 0.07 percent (Malta) and 1.83 percent (Denmark), there were only four Member States, namely France, Italy, Germany and the United Kingdom (UK), which reached contribution shares greater than 10 percent. Together, these four countries make up over 60 percent of all contributions, with Germany contributing the largest single proportion with 19 percent. UK net contributions to EU budget shows fluctuation in the amount the UK has paid to the EU over recent years. According to government forecasts UK contributions to the European Union budget are expected to increase each year until 2022. An overall rise is also expected in UK public sector receipts from European Union budget.

Bottom line is they will have a +14% hole in their budget to fill, which is not inconsiderable. So to say we are in a totally weak position is not quite true.

Originally Posted by Pierre

There also another very important stat.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...contributions/




Bottom line is they will have a +14% hole in their budget to fill, which is not inconsiderable. So to say we are in a totally weak position is not quite true.

No, even with the previous statistics it's not good for the EU. My point though is that they don't need us more than we need them. It's not a symmetrical power balance which is partly why May is having such a hard time. It's still in both parties interest to reach a deal.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

And herein lies the issue - the astonishment that a democratic decision taken, is taking years to implement.

Leavers all knew what they voted for and years of uncertainty whilst we unwound ourselves from the EU and the treaties it had enacted was made clear by Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and others.

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

No, even with the previous statistics it's not good for the EU. My point though is that they don't need us more than we need them. It's not a symmetrical power balance which is partly why May is having such a hard time. It's still in both parties interest to reach a deal.

Exactly, the closer the relationship between the EU27 and the UK, the better off we will all be. The further apart we get, the worse off we get. We're not fighting for a bigger piece of the same cake, we've different ingredients to add that make it a bigger cake.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

This the same logic that Leavers had before the referendum that the German car manufacturers would force a deal. Where did that go? Are they waiting for a last minute dramatic intervention?

Pure comedy gold! The bonkers theory that the EU needs us more than we need them is either born of some 19th-century colonial superiority belief or from Diane Abbott's magical calculator. We both need each other but as the EU27 dwarf us in population and GDP, we clearly need them more than they need us!

Originally Posted by Angua

We are and have been governed by minorities for decades.

No we have not.

Again, you are including nonsense about minorities because the entire populace did not participate in an Election/referendum cycle.

Where a majority exists in a referendum, it beats the other binary option by a significant amount, in the EU Referendum, more than one million people voted leave over remain - that is not a minority.

Those who were ineligible to vote or could not be arsed to vote - do not become part of the argument, "well it was only a minority of people who actually voted", when the decision that was democratically decided, was not the right one to the losers.

You keep going on about this and it is wrong and misleading to keep bringing it up, it is irrelevant going on the principle that the EU Referendum was the largest Democratic processes undertaken, in recent British History.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

We still have our own laws. Our government were and are responsible for who comes here and who gets benefits. The fact our own government cannot be bothered to sort out something so simple. Yet you are more concerned about being a parochial little island, rapidly decreasing in importance, just so we can avoid being part of something bigger and more united by what they have in common, than divided by hatred and fear.

I for one would rather be inside and influencing, than outside and waving impotently.

Pragmatically I know we will leave the EU, I am just bewildered by how angry some leave supporters still seem to be.

I think people are entitled to be angry with people who are trying to undermine our democratic decision.