Want ADSL?-Read on....

[Neil]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.

Do Sky force you to have a Sky telephone line with their DTV product? (no)

Do ntl force you to have an ntl telephone line with their DTV product? (yes)

Simple-as I said earlier, it all comes down to choice-or in ntl's case, lack of it.

[trebor]

Originally Posted by orangebird

No, just having abit of trouble deciphering the twaddle you're posting

You saying you didn't get any movies with ntl, but you do with sky so it's better value. But, you didn't pay for any movies with ntl, and you are with sky... ....

ok I give up, you win, NTL are better value than sky.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.

ah yes but BT could supply a 'dead' phone line for those people who want ADSL without the phone service - if they wanted to.

[Chrysalis]

(my case)

1 - value for money
ntl analogue area, so paying 11.99 for phone line and basic channels, 9.50 for line rental on bt meaning I am paying 2.49 for channels that I rarely watch (this is analogue doesnt even come close to freeview), already 2.49 down. internet costs, I am paying 24.99 for 600kbit download and 128kbit upload, for the same price on ADSL I can have 512kbit download and 256kbit upload and a static ip address. lastly there is the 5p connection charge issue as well. Bt+sky win here
2 - customer service
ntl lack of service on sundays ****es me off truly, bt and sky and adsl isp service 24/7. Bt+sky win here
3 - choice
ntl have forced me to be only to pick from analogue tv options, whilst sky digital is available more or less everywhere, adsl has choice from dozens of providers and various different packages, obviously if closer to exchange limited to max 512kbit download but still the choice of providers. Bt+sky win here

take into account those people who dont even have digital, not only is sky superior against ntl digital but it wins hands down on ntl analogue.

also how much does the max tv package cost on ntl analogue anyone know? thanks.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

ah yes but BT could supply a 'dead' phone line for those people who want ADSL without the phone service - if they wanted to.

It would still cost BT money to supply a "dead" phone line so they are hardly going to supply and maintain this for free. The phone line would have to be live in order to use it for xDSL and you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service. BT (and NTL) charge £9.50 for the phone line rental so if you want xDSL you would have to pay for the line.

[Neil]

Let's be honest & realistic here-how many people don't have a live working landline phone in their house??

I would say very few, so at the end of the day the vast majority off peeps will be better off without ntl as they are paying for a phone line anyway, so it may as well be a BT one (with caller I.D), with a nice reliable DSL package from a proper ISP that puts it's customers first, than with ntl who clearly don't give a to$$ about their customers, & who know that the only way to get customers to take their inferior phone line, is to force it upon people.

Another nice piece of marketing ntl.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

It would still cost BT money to supply a "dead" phone line so they are hardly going to supply and maintain this for free. The phone line would have to be live in order to use it for xDSL and you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service. BT (and NTL) charge £9.50 for the phone line rental so if you want xDSL you would have to pay for the line.

as a 'dead' phone line it's just a cable for your ADSL modem to connect you to the exchange. this should be covered in your monthly ADSL charge just as NTL supply a coax cable which connects your modem to your local UBR which is also absorbed into the cost of your monthly NTL broadband charge.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

....you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service...

even if you get ADSL from an independent supplier, BT still get a slice of the money you pay the supplier for ADSL. except in LLU.

[DrAwesome]

The standard BT line rental is £9.50 (paid by direct debit) - £2.15 monthly off peak call allowance which means the line rental is cheaper than NTL's standard line rental because a BT standard line customer only pays £7.45.

Also not forgeting as a BT customer you can get BT Answer 1571 free messaging service

[Neil]

Originally Posted by DrAwesome

The standard BT line rental is £9.50 (paid by direct debit) - £2.15 monthly off peak call allowance which means the line rental is cheaper than NTL's standard line rental because a BT standard line customer only pays £7.45.

Also not forgeting as a BT customer you can get BT Answer 1571 free messaging service

And not forgetting the elusive (to ntl anyway) Caller I.D-I now have it on my BT phone line, & I must say I think it's a superb tool.

[orangebird]

Neil. you're starting to sound increasingly bitter... the phone line, bb and dtv was good enough when you got it for cheap, wasn't it?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Neil. you're starting to sound increasingly bitter... the phone line, bb and dtv was good enough when you got it for cheap, wasn't it?

OB-

Phone line was fine (didn't really use it-as you know as it was cheaper for me to use my mobile)

BB was fine for me (have always said do) 3 outages in 3 years is 'A OK' in my book.

DTV was poor. Poor quality picture/engineers that couldn't fix it/red button that locked the box if I even thought about pressing it/poor program guide.

So 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose, but the main issue (as I have always said) was (for me, & I suspect a lot of other people) is that when I pick up the phone to speak to someone at ntl (& you were with me on a number of occaisions when this happened), is that I am greeted some idiot who tries to fob me off with his/her lame BS, because he/she finds it easier to BS a customer than to find out the real facts.

Also-I had already made plans to ditch my subsidised packaged from ntl, & (as I publicly stated on .com)-"I would rather have a decent service that I pay for, than a pi$$ poor one that I don't"

N.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

OB-

Phone line was fine (didn't really use it-as you know as it was cheaper for me to use my mobile)

BB was fine for me (have always said do) 3 outages in 3 years is 'A OK' in my book.

DTV was poor. Poor quality picture/engineers that couldn't fix it/red button that locked the box if I even thought about pressing it/poor program guide.

So 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose, but the main issue (as I have always said) was (for me, & I suspect a lot of other people) is that when I pick up the phone to speak to someone at ntl (& you were with me on a number of occaisions when this happened), is that I am greeted some idiot who tries to fob me off with his/her lame BS, because he/she finds it easier to BS a customer than to find out the real facts.

Also-I had already made plans to ditch my subsidised packaged from ntl, & (as I publicly stated on .com)-"I would rather have a decent service that I pay for, than a pi$$ poor one that I don't"

N.

Fair enough!

[mdean]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Yes on both counts Neil, but the only question regarding channels is which system has the channels that you want? Sky certainly has better interactive than NTL but the red spot can be a nuisance although you can get a red spot zapper to keep getting rid of it. The winner for me with Sky is SKY+ which definately alters the way that you watch TV and once sampled you wouldn't be without it. Yes, it does cost £200 to get it and have it installed (sometimes you may find special offers on this) but you don't get any video recorder for free and have to pay for other parts of your viewing such as the TV.

Neils post is right (as was mine) For top package $ky+bt is dearer than NTL digital, with more or less the same channels but without the nuisance of the red dot. Add in prem plus at only £12 a year Ntl is miles ahead if you like footy (ie the reason 90% of folk subscribe).

I am curious why people go for the $ky+ box tho'. It involves investing in seriously closed technology which only works with $ky, more and more DVD R and hard disk machines are on the market - and it is quite likely that a WIFI solution to connect your telly to your PC could be economic soon.(recording and playing from your hard drive configured your way- not Ruperts little lads way) in truth I don't record enough to justify $ky + and think there will be better open source options in the future

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by mdean

Neils post is right (as was mine) For top package $ky+bt is dearer than NTL digital, with more or less the same channels but without the nuisance of the red dot. Add in prem plus at only £12 a year Ntl is miles ahead if you like footy (ie the reason 90% of folk subscribe).

I am curious why people go for the $ky+ box tho'. It involves investing in seriously closed technology which only works with $ky, more and more DVD R and hard disk machines are on the market - and it is quite likely that a WIFI solution to connect your telly to your PC could be economic soon.(recording and playing from your hard drive configured your way- not Ruperts little lads way) in truth I don't record enough to justify $ky + and think there will be better open source options in the future

Yes, at the moment NTL digital and phoneline is £2 dearer than Sky and BT for top package but no doubt NTL will raise their price to match in the next couple of months. Sky do have more channels in that top package than NTL but that is only important if you want to watch the extra channels. The one thing to note however is that when you add in the cost of telephone calls the Sky / BT package can work out cheaper depending on your calling pattern and call provider.

NTL are definately cheaper than Sky for the Premiership Plus package but your idea that 90% subscribe because of this is nonsensical. I had Premiership Plus when with NTL but have dropped this with Sky as it isn't that important to me at more than £1 a month.

You have to have used Sky+ for a couple of days to realise the potential of it and then you wouldn't be without it. It only costs £200 to have it and get it installed which isn't that much when you consider what most people spend on Audio Visual equipment. It is so easy to use and recordings are of the same standard as the original broadcast signal due to the way the signal is stored and replayed. With features like dual recording, live pause and instant rewing you have plenty of control and can even decide to record a programme that you are watching up to an hour after it has started and the recording is the whole programme from the start. What other system allows you to do that? Sky+ isn't just about recording though, it completely alters the way you watch TV and when you watch it. The other advantage of having Sky+ is that the mirror subscription for my second box only costs £10, unlike a second box with NTL that costs £15.

[tkiely]

I had Sky installed yesterday with a second box.

Would have loved Sky+ but the earliest install is the end of March!!!!! cant wait that long so I'll slum it.