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Old 19-08-2019, 13:55   #226
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Re: 500mb Question

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Originally Posted by roughbeast View Post
I have just spoken to an operative, having got fed up waiting for a text response, and have been told that the upper daily limit for 'unlimited' SIMs of the kind I have, (paid for through a broadband deal), is 100GB a day! Not even my family managed to exceed that! I asked the OP where the limit is written down. He said in roaming FAQs in my mobile account. I haven't found it yet, but will keep looking. You would think it would be more obvious than that!

So, as it stands, the OP's answer does account for the lack of charges so far. He agreed when I suggested that the 100GB figure was arrived at because a line had to be drawn somewhere and only a maniac would exceed that. He also agreed that the FUP calculator does not apply to this situation.

BTW There has been discussion elsewhere.

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5...ighlight/false
I'm not, I'm just pointing out that roam like home has a FUP. To find out what that is, you go here.

https://store.virginmedia.com/FUP-Calculator.html

An unlimited sim from VM cost £32. Put that in and click unlimited data and it tells you how much data you can use. Your sim isn't any different just because it's part of a bundle.
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Old 19-08-2019, 13:59   #227
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Re: 500mb Question

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Originally Posted by Mythica View Post
I'm not, I'm just pointing out that roam like home has a FUP. To find out what that is, you go here.

https://store.virginmedia.com/FUP-Calculator.html

An unlimited sim from VM cost £32. Put that in and click unlimited data and it tells you how much data you can use. Your sim isn't any different just because it's part of a bundle.
So my conversation with a VM operative counts for nothing? He tells me the EU fup roaming limit is 100GB a day for my kind of SIM and you tell me he is wrong?
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Old 19-08-2019, 14:07   #228
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Re: 500mb Question

The EU Data Roaming FUP for the Unlimited Oomph SIM is 11.6 GB.

The Oomph team do have that information and I understood that it was to be updated for the customer calculator and roaming information - I'm not sure why it's not been done yet.
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Old 19-08-2019, 14:13   #229
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Re: 500mb Question

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So my conversation with a VM operative counts for nothing? He tells me the EU fup roaming limit is 100GB a day for my kind of SIM and you tell me he is wrong?
I'm telling you he cant point to that and you cant find it. All the while I've pointed to terms and conditions, calculators and paragraphs from the VM site which state what I have being saying is true and now you have a VM employee above (Ben) telling you the same.

Can I ask how much data you normally use a month?
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Old 19-08-2019, 14:53   #230
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Re: 500mb Question

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I'm telling you he cant point to that and you cant find it. All the while I've pointed to terms and conditions, calculators and paragraphs from the VM site which state what I have being saying is true and now you have a VM employee above (Ben) telling you the same.

Can I ask how much data you normally use a month?
In that case, VM are also really confused and are utterly crap at communicating essential information, such as that for ordinary punters with a SIM like mine. Why are different VM reps providing different information?

My normal usage is 2 or 3 GB monthly, but this rises when we go on family trips within the UK. Unlimited data is great on long car journeys with 2 data-hungry teens in the back! We managed 5GB on a recent 400-mile round trip. A draw back in the UK, but not in Greece, is poor 4G coverage. Even India has universal 4G in the most remote areas. Needless-to-say I didn't turn on data roaming whilst I was there.
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Old 19-08-2019, 14:59   #231
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Re: 500mb Question

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In that case, VM are also really confused and are utterly crap at communicating essential information, such as that for ordinary punters with a SIM like mine. Why are different VM reps providing different information?

My normal usage is 2 or 3 GB monthly, but this rises when we go on family trips within the UK. Unlimited data is great on long car journeys with 2 data-hungry teens in the back! We managed 5GB on a recent 400-mile round trip. A draw back in the UK, but not in Greece, is poor 4G coverage. Even India has universal 4G in the most remote areas. Needless-to-say I didn't turn on data roaming whilst I was there.
VM have always been crap with things like this, it should come as no surprise.
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Old 19-08-2019, 15:29   #232
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Re: 500mb Question

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VM have always been crap with things like this, it should come as no surprise.
This.
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Old 19-08-2019, 15:42   #233
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Re: 500mb Question

Anymore digs at each other and timeouts will be used.

Make your points without getting personal.
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Old 19-08-2019, 19:11   #234
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Re: 500mb Question

Roughbeast just make a mental note of the time and date of the phone call and hopefully it will have been recorded as well. As Ben said, the website hasn't been updated properly and if anything does come of it you can raise all the points I have and prove that you have shown due diligence by contacting them for the "correct" information as you were unable to find it online and that was the information you was given so you have done everything right and they are in the wrong.
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Old 19-08-2019, 19:52   #235
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Re: 500mb Question

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Roughbeast just make a mental note of the time and date of the phone call and hopefully it will have been recorded as well. As Ben said, the website hasn't been updated properly and if anything does come of it you can raise all the points I have and prove that you have shown due diligence by contacting them for the "correct" information as you were unable to find it online and that was the information you was given so you have done everything right and they are in the wrong.
Thanks mate. VM incompetence astounds me.

I had a further call with the 'Concerns' department. The OP was excellent and really tried her best to get an answer. She couldn't find an answer in any documentation. She spoke to her immediate line manager who repeated the view that Roam as at Home meant just that and so no charges have been made or would be made. I asked for documentation that confirmed that, but just as I made that request, the manager of the whole department walked past the OP and was of the same view as Mythica, that a nominal price for the cost of my SIM should be applied, i.e. £25.00. On the calculator that would give me a roaming allowance of 10.74GB.

Naturally, I asked why I hadn't been charged by the system and why I hadn't received a data or credit warning. The manager reported that she didn't know why, but that I wouldn't be charged now or retrospectively. I then asked where in my contract or billing details it stated that £25 was the nominal cost of my SIM. She had to admit that this was not stated in either location. Finally, I asked what would happen if I went on holiday in the EU next week and caned my SIM again. Would I be charged? She wasn't sure, but thought I should be.

I wanted all this in writing, so asked her to email me with a full explanation of what my EU roaming allowance really is and why the system doesn't want to charge me for going way over the limit unsuspectingly. Needless-to-say I don't have great hopes that I will be any the wiser.

My next planned EU visit is in May, so we shall see, or perhaps we won't. If we leave the EU with No Deal it probably all ends anyway.
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Old 19-08-2019, 20:10   #236
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Re: 500mb Question

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Thanks mate. VM incompetence astounds me.

I had a further call with the 'Concerns' department. The OP was excellent and really tried her best to get an answer. She couldn't find an answer in any documentation. She spoke to her immediate line manager who repeated the view that Roam as at Home meant just that and so no charges have been made or would be made. I asked for documentation that confirmed that, but just as I made that request, the manager of the whole department walked past the OP and was of the same view as Mythica, that a nominal price for the cost of my SIM should be applied, i.e. £25.00. On the calculator that would give me a roaming allowance of 10.74GB.

Naturally, I asked why I hadn't been charged by the system and why I hadn't received a data or credit warning. The manager reported that she didn't know why, but that I wouldn't be charged now or retrospectively. I then asked where in my contract or billing details it stated that £25 was the nominal cost of my SIM. She had to admit that this was not stated in either location. Finally, I asked what would happen if I went on holiday in the EU next week and caned my SIM again. Would I be charged? She wasn't sure, but thought I should be.

I wanted all this in writing, so asked her to email me with a full explanation of what my EU roaming allowance really is and why the system doesn't want to charge me for going way over the limit unsuspectingly. Needless-to-say I don't have great hopes that I will be any the wiser.

My next planned EU visit is in May, so we shall see, or perhaps we won't. If we leave the EU with No Deal it probably all ends anyway.
In my eyes, the only piece of information that is missing (yes it's important) is what you'd put into the calculator. But even then a bit of common sense goes a long way. I've just come back from Greece and knew the unlimited sim we have as part of the ultimate oomph bundle isn't unlimited when roaming.

Everything else is there in plain black and white. It clearly states FUP applies. As I pointed out before, the sim you have is an unlimited sim which if bought separately costs £32. Put that into the calculator and click you have unlimited data and it gives you your allowance for roaming.

If we take away all the arguing over the last few pages, your downfall was not reading the terms and conditions of your contract correctly and believing you could just use all of your allowance while roaming which clearly isn't the case.
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Old 19-08-2019, 22:19   #237
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Re: 500mb Question

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Originally Posted by Mythica View Post
In my eyes, the only piece of information that is missing (yes it's important) is what you'd put into the calculator. But even then a bit of common sense goes a long way. I've just come back from Greece and knew the unlimited sim we have as part of the ultimate oomph bundle isn't unlimited when roaming.

Everything else is there in plain black and white. It clearly states FUP applies. As I pointed out before, the sim you have is an unlimited sim which if bought separately costs £32. Put that into the calculator and click you have unlimited data and it gives you your allowance for roaming.

If we take away all the arguing over the last few pages, your downfall was not reading the terms and conditions of your contract correctly and believing you could just use all of your allowance while roaming which clearly isn't the case.
If you remember, this whole saga began with me reporting not being charged for using well over 100Gb of data over 2 weeks in Greece. On top of that I have had as many versions of what was supposed to happen from as many departments contacted. Your version has been partly confirmed by just one department. What is a regular punter supposed to think? One thing has been confirmed, is that I will not be charged retrospectively, namely because of poorly displayed information in VM documents and web pages and I received no data or credit warnings. The documentation, automatic metering and billing systems need updating if what you say is right, which it probably is.

Just put yourself in the position of a non-IT savvy punter, like my mum, who just buys into what sounds like a great service. She would not have made the connection between what someone pays for an unlimited SIM directly, (something she wouldn't know anyway) and what she pays as part of a global VM package. To make that connection the upfront documentation would need to spell it out, i.e £25 of your £99 is for your unlimited SIM and you should first of all enter that into the FUP calculator before you think of roaming in the EU. Nowhere does the documentation say that. It isn't even in the small print of my contract or my billing information. (Please note that the £25 suggested by one department, doesn't even match the £32 you say is in black and white.) Someone like my mum would just accept the fact that she hasn't been charged for using many, many GB watching her favourite Netflix movies back at her holiday apartment every evening or siesta time. Even if she knew about FUP she would have put £0.00 in the calculator because that is what her Virgin Mobile bill would say her SIM costs each month.

VM cannot be excused for this, by anyone saying it is obvious and written in black and white for all to see. It's a bit like the Vogans saying, "‘There’s no point acting all surprised about the intergalactic highway and the demolition of Earth. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now.’ How would ordinary Earthlings like my mum know about that unless they had a letter through their door?
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Old 20-08-2019, 13:28   #238
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Re: 500mb Question

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If you remember, this whole saga began with me reporting not being charged for using well over 100Gb of data over 2 weeks in Greece. On top of that I have had as many versions of what was supposed to happen from as many departments contacted. Your version has been partly confirmed by just one department. What is a regular punter supposed to think? One thing has been confirmed, is that I will not be charged retrospectively, namely because of poorly displayed information in VM documents and web pages and I received no data or credit warnings. The documentation, automatic metering and billing systems need updating if what you say is right, which it probably is.

Just put yourself in the position of a non-IT savvy punter, like my mum, who just buys into what sounds like a great service. She would not have made the connection between what someone pays for an unlimited SIM directly, (something she wouldn't know anyway) and what she pays as part of a global VM package. To make that connection the upfront documentation would need to spell it out, i.e £25 of your £99 is for your unlimited SIM and you should first of all enter that into the FUP calculator before you think of roaming in the EU. Nowhere does the documentation say that. It isn't even in the small print of my contract or my billing information. (Please note that the £25 suggested by one department, doesn't even match the £32 you say is in black and white.) Someone like my mum would just accept the fact that she hasn't been charged for using many, many GB watching her favourite Netflix movies back at her holiday apartment every evening or siesta time. Even if she knew about FUP she would have put £0.00 in the calculator because that is what her Virgin Mobile bill would say her SIM costs each month.

VM cannot be excused for this, by anyone saying it is obvious and written in black and white for all to see. It's a bit like the Vogans saying, "‘There’s no point acting all surprised about the intergalactic highway and the demolition of Earth. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now.’ How would ordinary Earthlings like my mum know about that unless they had a letter through their door?
To be fair, I'd say the whole saga began when you assumed you could use unlimited data while roaming. I'm not here to be argumentative but apart from the FUP calculator not explaining how to calculate if you're part of a bundle, it is black and white that FUP applies while roaming, in my eyes that cant be argued and the fact some VM staff don't know this speaks volumes of the training that happens in VM, but that doesn't surprise me.
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Old 20-08-2019, 14:41   #239
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Re: 500mb Question

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To be fair, I'd say the whole saga began when you assumed you could use unlimited data while roaming. I'm not here to be argumentative but apart from the FUP calculator not explaining how to calculate if you're part of a bundle, it is black and white that FUP applies while roaming, in my eyes that cant be argued and the fact some VM staff don't know this speaks volumes of the training that happens in VM, but that doesn't surprise me.
At the time of heading off roaming I was unaware of the calculator or of any nominal cost for my SIM. There should be direct clear links to such information. There are not. In effect I am like any Jo Bloggs with a new toy and no upfront documentation telling me that Roam as at Home was actually misleading guidance. You are telling me that it is not Roam like at Home. Just like any Jo Bloggs my assumptions seemed to be confirmed by the fact that I got no data warning, credit warning or any charges in my mobile bills. The facts that you have ended up having to repeat frequently on my behalf are only in black and white if you know where to find them. They are as hidden as the notice on Alpha Centuri

As I type I am in conversation with another department where the OP has gone off to speak to a manager, because they don't know the definitive answer either. His assumption was the same as mine, i.e no charges for unlimited SIMs of the Ooomph kind in the EU. He was surprised that there is a charge and told me that he had given that advise to other callers.

Sorry mate. In the end you may well be right, but most, not all VM employees haven't discovered this yet.

I am not going to respond again for now, unless I come up with definitive new information with documentation that tells me precisely what I should put in the calculator, if anything, £25 or £32 or something else.

Bye for now.
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Old 20-08-2019, 15:16   #240
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Re: 500mb Question

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At the time of heading off roaming I was unaware of the calculator or of any nominal cost for my SIM. There should be direct clear links to such information. There are not. In effect I am like any Jo Bloggs with a new toy and no upfront documentation telling me that Roam as at Home was actually misleading guidance. You are telling me that it is not Roam like at Home. Just like any Jo Bloggs my assumptions seemed to be confirmed by the fact that I got no data warning, credit warning or any charges in my mobile bills. The facts that you have ended up having to repeat frequently on my behalf are only in black and white if you know where to find them. They are as hidden as the notice on Alpha Centuri

As I type I am in conversation with another department where the OP has gone off to speak to a manager, because they don't know the definitive answer either. His assumption was the same as mine, i.e no charges for unlimited SIMs of the Ooomph kind in the EU. He was surprised that there is a charge and told me that he had given that advise to other callers.

Sorry mate. In the end you may well be right, but most, not all VM employees haven't discovered this yet.

I am not going to respond again for now, unless I come up with definitive new information with documentation that tells me precisely what I should put in the calculator, if anything, £25 or £32 or something else.

Bye for now.
The text you receive when you connect to another network when roaming as soon as you switch your phone on specifically states about the FUP. Did you not receive that text? I'm guessing you also didn't read your terms and conditions of the contract you signed which also states you have to abide by the roam like home policy.

I'm not here to cause grief or trouble or be argumentative. I do believe that the FUP calculator could be more clear for those on packages like the ultimate oomph. But this just smacks of well it's not my fault as I didn't read anything and just assumed I can do what I want. I hope you don't get charged, I'm just annoyed that after doing all the research, pointing you in the right direction that it all fell on deaf ears simply because you didn't believe what I was saying, even when providing links. Just to add, there is no special sim for the ultimate oomph bundle, it's just the unlimited sim they sell for £32.

I wish you the best as you might be in for a long ride.
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