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The future of television
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Old 04-03-2021, 18:23   #31
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
And yet still no link ...
As I explained, I provided this at the time but I am not trawling through any more posts attempting to find it. It could be lurking in one of a number of threads and it would take hours to go through them all.

I expect you or others would find a reason to rubbish it anyway so I wouldn't cry about it.
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Old 04-03-2021, 18:27   #32
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Re: The future of television

The CF equivalent of

"of course I have a girlfriend!

Why haven’t you met her?

Oh, she lives in Canada..
."

Anyway, back in the U.K., in 2035, what will people do for TV if they don’t have Broadband or their Broadband goes down?
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Old 04-03-2021, 18:40   #33
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
You are indulging in casuistry....

Someone states today "I won’t drink any alcohol after today".

Next day, someone spots them having a beer, and they say "I didn’t mean immediately after yesterday!".

Sure, Jan...
No, I'm telling you how I interpret the use of the word. I accept the way you took it, but that is not how I meant it.

If I give up drinking in 2011 and my wife leaves me in 2016, someone might ask if she left because of my drinking. If I then say she left me after I had stopped drinking, that would be correct, despite the time gap.

I really don't know why you persist in trying to trip people up by reference to specific words they use. You know what they mean, so why not concentrate on the issues being debated? Accept that sometimes you read things the wrong way, or perhaps not as the author intended.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
A very interesting technical document, but with no proposed 'switch off' date for Freeview - whether 2027, 2035, or any other date Old Boy may or may not have floated at some point in this long and meandering discussion.

As there is an ambition to eventually get high-speed data connections into every British home, IP delivery makes sense in the long run. There are various logistical challenges to overcome though, not least of which is ensuring the national grid has enough juice to power data networks that would be working exponentially harder than they do today.

And, lest we forget, if BBC One transmits its schedule over IP, with the News at 6, something with Nick Knowles at 8, drama at 9 and the news again at 10 ... that is still linear TV, regardless of what they're using to get the programme from their studio to your home.
Yes, it's still linear, but you would access it differently. That is my point.

Focussing on the 'l' word in this way is completely missing the crux of this matter.

Live (linear) programmes will be streamed. I presume you are not arguing about that.

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Something from another thread last year, but relevant to this.

The future of DTT from The House of Lords Select Committee on Communications and Digital - 1st Report of Session 2019 - published 5th November 2019.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...muni/16/16.pdf

Pages 64-65


Their bold italics, not mine...

The relevance is that, at the moment, if you have a TV and an aerial (indoor or outdoor), you can watch Freeview TV at no extra expense, and with very little fuss (except for occasionally retuning the TV, and sometimes fiddling with the aerial if internal).

At the moment, 82% of the UK population have Broadband Access (not Internet Access, as people can have that through their smartphones) - under the IPTV delivery method (be it broadcast channels or SVOD, it's irrelevant), anyone without Broadband would be denied access to Freeview TV.

First issue, additional expense in purchasing Fixed Broadband so you can watch Freeview TV.

Next, if, like a lot of people, you have multiple TVs in your house, again, all you currently need is an aerial socket, or like me, the TVs in our bedroom and one of the other bedrooms just have a set-top aerial. If we had IP/Broadband delivered TV, people would need the wifi to be good enough, or network sockets, in those rooms.

Second issue, additional cost in setting up appropriate network/wifi connectivity to other TVs - especially in older houses with thick walls.

Then, what happens if the Broadband goes down? - no TV.
At the moment, if our Broadband goes down, we just go to the Digital channels, and carry on watching (if the programme is on Freeview, obviously). Or, over-utilisation or interference in your area could affect the quality of the programmes you are watching, due to the bandwidth being negatively affected/disrupted - remember the story late last year about a village having 18 months of slow speeds because of an old TV?

Third issue, if you lose your internet connection (or have it degraded), poor quality or no Freeview TV.
Fair enough, although the Culture Secretary is 'mooting' his idea of abolishing the licence fee in favour of a subscription, despite what that report says.

Note also that Freeview is changing to allow more on demand services.

Good point about internet going down.
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Old 04-03-2021, 18:46   #34
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Yes, it's still linear, but you would access it differently. That is my point.
.
It only became your point after you comprehensively lost your original argument, which was that there is no future for linear tv channels. Remember how you used to go on and on about how much you loved setting up your to-watch lists and how brain-dead you thought people were who still preferred to switch on to an evening of curated programming from one of the established broadcasters? I know you do.
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Old 04-03-2021, 18:49   #35
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Re: The future of television

Freeview has also decided to allow the streaming of channels where they are not available to some people via DTT e.g. Freeview Lite areas.

I think they are doing this to stay relevant as the number of channels broadcast in the traditional way will decrease as time progresses. For most of the channels currently available, it will be a case of streaming them over the internet or losing them.

Now that Freeview & Freesat are to merge operations, maybe we will see a combined Freeat/Freeview solution with the ability to stream channels- all on one EPG.

This could also be a cost effective way to get the BBC1 & Channel 4 regional variants rolled out in HD.
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Old 04-03-2021, 19:10   #36
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Re: The future of television

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
It only became your point after you comprehensively lost your original argument, which was that there is no future for linear tv channels. Remember how you used to go on and on about how much you loved setting up your to-watch lists and how brain-dead you thought people were who still preferred to switch on to an evening of curated programming from one of the established broadcasters? I know you do.
We've done to death the 'linear' argument, Chris. You know very well that I was using the word in the commonly used context, not in the strictly technical sense.

Once it became clear that some of you were interpreting linear in that way, and not to mean scheduled channels, I clarified that live programming would be streamed.

Do you seriously believe that I ever intended anyone to think we wouldn't be able to watch live sport, etc anymore? Don't be daft!
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Old 04-03-2021, 19:31   #37
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
If I give up drinking in 2011 and my wife leaves me in 2016
Hold on - you are talking about 2011 in the future tense? You use a different calendar to the rest of us! Suddenly it all makes sense
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Old 04-03-2021, 19:48   #38
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Re: The future of television

There’s a joke in there spider which is eluding me...!
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Old 04-03-2021, 19:51   #39
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
We've done to death the 'linear' argument, Chris. You know very well that I was using the word in the commonly used context, not in the strictly technical sense.

Once it became clear that some of you were interpreting linear in that way, and not to mean scheduled channels, I clarified that live programming would be streamed.

Do you seriously believe that I ever intended anyone to think we wouldn't be able to watch live sport, etc anymore? Don't be daft!
There go the goalposts, cheerfully cantering down the tunnel and out of the stadium ...
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Old 04-03-2021, 19:54   #40
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
We've done to death the 'linear' argument, Chris. You know very well that I was using the word in the commonly used context, not in the strictly technical sense.

Once it became clear that some of you were interpreting linear in that way, and not to mean scheduled channels, I clarified that live programming would be streamed.

Do you seriously believe that I ever intended anyone to think we wouldn't be able to watch live sport, etc anymore? Don't be daft!
Pretty sure no one who disagreed with your proposition defined linear to mean anything other than "a schedule of programmes" - if they did, they were in a very small minority...

However, in Nov 2019, Chris said

Quote:
Pretty much as some of us have been saying all along ... any TV that is broadcast to a schedule is linear, regardless of whether it’s made available by terrestrial, satellite, cable or over IP.
you said
Quote:
But the scheduled TV channels as we know them now almost certainly will not exist with IPTV
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...r#post36018715
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Last edited by Hugh; 04-03-2021 at 19:59.
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Old 04-03-2021, 20:09   #41
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Re: The future of television

So OB which is it by 2035?

The traditional broadcast systems - terrestrial and satellite (I’ll leave cable to the side to avoid confusion), scheduled channels or all of the above?
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Old 04-03-2021, 20:09   #42
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Re: The future of television

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
There go the goalposts, cheerfully cantering down the tunnel and out of the stadium ...
Less of a canter, more like the goalposts ran out of the stadium, hit the railway track, careens wildly down the embankment, smashes through a circus, bulldozes a mink farm, and plows into the river, where it bursts into flame, then rolls over and explodes, raining down smoking clown shrapnel and flaming weasels over a terrified countryside.

(h/t Stonekettle)
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Old 04-03-2021, 20:43   #43
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Re: The future of television

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Pretty sure no one who disagreed with your proposition defined linear to mean anything other than "a schedule of programmes" - if they did, they were in a very small minority...

However, in Nov 2019, Chris said



you said

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...r#post36018715
There’s no contradiction. The pre-recorded programmes would be on demand and the live programmes would be streamed. Obviously, each live stream would start when the live action started (as it does now on Amazon).

The use of the word ‘linear’ was meant to refer to our traditional TV channels. It was widely described in this way on the internet at that time. Unfortunately, I didn’t bargain for all the nit-picking that would result from this on the forum. Silly me.

Anyway, let’s move on. All of that was five years ago. Time to get over it. It’s much more interesting to talk about various scenarios that may transpire in the coming years.

Except for those who cannot bear the thought that all those channel numbers might actually disappear over the next decade or so and don’t want to even try to imagine that.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

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So OB which is it by 2035?

The traditional broadcast systems - terrestrial and satellite (I’ll leave cable to the side to avoid confusion), scheduled channels or all of the above?
Baiting again, jfman?
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Old 04-03-2021, 20:57   #44
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Re: The future of television

No baiting OB. After years of contradictory statements it'd be nice to get the new thread off on the right footing by clearly defining what we mean. To avoid years of confusion.

And on a point of order linear television doesn't require channel numbers in the interface. Just pre-empting the next goal post shift.

The Sky Go apps (e.g. on PlayStation) and BT Sport apps can be used to watch linear, scheduled television without numbers.

Last edited by jfman; 04-03-2021 at 21:34.
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Old 04-03-2021, 21:34   #45
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Re: The future of television

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
There’s no contradiction. The pre-recorded programmes would be on demand and the live programmes would be streamed. Obviously, each live stream would start when the live action started (as it does now on Amazon).

The use of the word ‘linear’ was meant to refer to our traditional TV channels. It was widely described in this way on the internet at that time. Unfortunately, I didn’t bargain for all the nit-picking that would result from this on the forum. Silly me.

Anyway, let’s move on. All of that was five years ago. Time to get over it. It’s much more interesting to talk about various scenarios that may transpire in the coming years.

Except for those who cannot bear the thought that all those channel numbers might actually disappear over the next decade or so and don’t want to even try to imagine that.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------



Baiting again, jfman?
It’s not a matter of getting over anything, old bean. This is a discussion forum. Discussion relies on propositions, evidence and argument. If your propositions keep changing - which they do - then your evidence is irrelevant and your arguments are meaningless. That’s why the discussion keeps orbiting your shifting definitions of terms. Until we all know what we’re talking about there’s no point trying to proceed.
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