Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I agree with you about that toxic mix.

It is true that Boris was unpopular with the left. They knew Labour would never get back with him as PM. The rest of us were more concerned with the bigger picture.

But then came the gift of partygate.

Johnson was becoming unpopular with the public before Partygate.

Why? Not a left or right thing , he was just seen to want to act above the law, and to have an uncomfortable relationship with the truth. Look at Owen Paterson who breached lobbying rules for MPs by meeting with two companies. Instead of following protocol and suspending him, Johnson suggested changing the rules thereby allowing Paterson to continue as MP. This went down badly with the British public and ultimately Paterson resigned.

The last straw for Johnson were the allegations against Chris Pincher, who had been appointed deputy chief whip. Johnson initially denied being aware of complaints against Pincher only for it to become clear that he had in fact been aware of the allegations before the appointment.

I've not even covered the scandals of Partygate, PPE procurement and the discharge of patients with Covid into nursing homes.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry, Grim, that’s the myth spread by the lefties. People already knew what Boris was like. They voted him in because they liked the manifesto and believed he could deliver Brexit.

It was Partygate that brought the house down, and if you track the opinion polls, they confirm this. That is the point that his ratings went down.

I can't believe you don't see it. It wasn't partygate that brought down the PM, it was the continual lying and the ducking and diving. If it wasn't the cake that ambushed him it would have been something else because Boris is not capable of holding his hands up and admitting he was in the wrong and got caught. His downfall was his own doing because of a general inability to tell the truth, coupled with stupidly thinking people would believe whatever that day's excuse was, and all mixed with a good dollop of arrogance.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I can't believe you don't see it. It wasn't partygate that brought down the PM, it was the continual lying and the ducking and diving. If it wasn't the cake that ambushed him it would have been something else because Boris is not capable of holding his hands up and admitting he was in the wrong and got caught. His downfall was his own doing because of a general inability to tell the truth, coupled with stupidly thinking people would believe whatever that day's excuse was, and all mixed with a good dollop of arrogance.

The final nail in the coffin was not the Partygate scandal but the Chris Pincher scandal.

Folks, the topic drift has gone too far for me to start weeding out posts, but can we please now return to the topic, which is Sir Keir Starmer and his leadership of Labour.

This means please STOP debating Boris Johnson, Partygate and all other Tory party issues here. There are plenty of other open threads for that.

[spiderplant]

Partygate was just the icing on the cake

[GrimUpNorth]

As Liz described Keir's suggestions for dealing with energy price rises as a 'sticking plaster', I wonder what she's going to do as a long-term cure?

Mods: not sure if this should be here or the energy crises, or the Boris thread - feel free to move it if you want!

I cant be bothered to move it, but future posts on the topic probably belong in the energy topic.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry, Grim, that’s the myth spread by the lefties. People already knew what Boris was like. They voted him in because they liked the manifesto and believed he could deliver Brexit.

It was Partygate that brought the house down, and if you track the opinion polls, they confirm this. That is the point that his ratings went down.

He’d have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky kids.

On a technical point the vast, vast, majority of the British population didn’t vote for Boris Johnson at all. He stands in one constituency only.

You say it was because of “partygate”, but the fact he’s a compulsive liar and partygate aren’t mutually exclusive concepts. It’s when it became obvious that he’d lie to the public, and laugh at them while doing so, which is an entirely different proposition than lying through incompetence and/or corruption. It was also when the Government collapsed into a black hole of it”s own ineptitude, lacking both the capability and moral authority to govern at all.

All of the above has nothing to do with “lefties”. You’re simply on such hollow ground it’s a lazy retort to save you from looking at what’s staring you in the face. They’re laughing at you Old Boy. You’re in our camp, not theirs.

On this afternoon’s glitter-bombing at the Labour conference …

I was in Liverpool today. Our open-top bus tour was momentarily held up by Keir Starmer arriving at Albert Dock under police escort. Security was absolutely everywhere. Police were even floating around the dock network in boats.

So how the heck did a numpty not only get on the stage, but also remain there more than long enough to have inflicted fatal injuries on Starmer, had that been his intent? The security response in the hall was pathetically slow.

Though I took some satisfaction in the fact that when the numpty was brought to the ground and dragged away it was two women doing the tackling and dragging. You’ve gotta love Liverpool.

[ianch99]

It is interesting to contrast the Tory and Labour conferences. Labour seem confident in their ability to win power at the GE. The Tories are just UKIP now which will erode a lot of the traditional "Blue Wall" base. Sort of double whammy ...

If I was a Tory donor who sold dodgy PPE and received millions, I'd be looking for good lawyers. About time too ...

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If I was a Tory donor who sold dodgy PPE and received millions, I'd be looking for good lawyers. About time too ...

[OLD BOY]

Starmer conducted himself well at the conference and seemed to be in the right place in terms of the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

Not much detail yet of course - the manifesto will be an interesting read. I wonder if he can get the balance right?

So far, he’s avoided the difficult questions.

[1andrew1]

14 actual policies were announced!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...eacd2b1a&ei=10

[Pierre]

I don’t trust Labour, I don’t like that they win by default, i think their front bench is weak.

But, as it’s inevitable, I can think of worse things than four years or so of Starmer.

It will be very interesting to see what kind of majority they get, if indeed they get one. They’ll certainly be the biggest party.

A collapse of the SNP will see them to a majority.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t trust Labour, I don’t like that they win by default, i think their front bench is weak.

But, as it’s inevitable, I can think of worse things than four years or so of Starmer.

It will be very interesting to see what kind of majority they get, if indeed they get one. They’ll certainly be the biggest party.

A collapse of the SNP will see them to a majority.

Best thing imo would be a coalition where pr is on the table, we all might have a vote that counts then, for a change