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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
It's the classic political dilemma - which is at the heart of politcal dishonesty.
It would be politically honest for western governments to break off diplomatic relations with Russia. But then they'd be in tent/piss territory - potentially unable to call an ambassador in for the proverbial dressing down.
Which brings us back to Ireland and the government's obligations under the Vienna convention.
What you haven’t yet explored is exactly how the Irish government might meet its Convention obligations. I’m no expert on Irish law but I suspect they can’t compel private companies to restore whatever services or contracts they have withdrawn. This raises the possibility of the Irish army being tasked with delivering food parcels and gas bottles to the embassy gates. What do you think?
There’s no prioritisation indicated by any of my posts. Ireland has obligations and should continue to adhere to them. If your contention is that Russian citizens around the world should be inconvenienced and essentially penalised for the actions of the Russian state then that’s a very, very slippery slope.
---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------
The irony, given that was 99% of the content of your post.
As my initial post was Russian citizens are fair game, thanks for confirming it is your position. I doubt it will have the desired outcome at scale.
My contention is that Irish people can make their own decisions, something that Putin would deny his own citizens. You can make up other conversations if you wish.
---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
What you haven’t yet explored is exactly how the Irish government might meet its Convention obligations. I’m no expert on Irish law but I suspect they can’t compel private companies to restore whatever services or contracts they have withdrawn. This raises the possibility of the Irish army being tasked with delivering food parcels and gas bottles to the embassy gates. What do you think?
I would not be surprised if some company would supply the Russians if they are paid well enough. Seems fair to me. Let the market decide
---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Bit of an inconvenience, it’s true - probably not as inconvenient as the daily cruise missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians, though, killing and wounding many and leaving them with no heating, power, or water, or the crimes committed by Russian forces, including unlawful attacks, wilful killings of civilians, torture, and extrajudicial executions, but let’s get outraged by the fact that the Russian Embassy in Ireland isn’t getting it’s diesel (which was in fact in April, and has since been resolved, unlike the ongoing carnage in Ukraine…).
Our Ukrainian guest has had to return to Dnipro as her son (who is not allowed to leave) is unwell. When we talk to her, she is often in the dark, cold and with no water. It is currently -4C at the moment, going down to -8C overnight. We can hear the air raid sirens while we talk to her. Maybe I should ask her how she feels about the poor Russian people in Eire having possible problems if/when they need to interact with their Embassy. I am sure she would be very sympathetic.
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Asking people emotionally involved rarely induces a rational response. For some examples feel free to review your own posts.
I assume this is a reply to me? If not, please ignore. It was a serious question: you have a real concern about the impact of the Irish people's actions against the Russian embassy in Eire. How would you like me to represent your side of the debate to her?
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I assume this is a reply to me? If not, please ignore. It was a serious question: you have a real concern about the impact of the Irish people's actions against the Russian embassy in Eire. How would you like me to represent your side of the debate to her?
In any way you please the answer will be of no value in any case. At best she sees the enemy as the Russian state and can disassociate it from the people, at worst she sees the Russian people as the enemy and fair game.
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
What you haven’t yet explored is exactly how the Irish government might meet its Convention obligations. I’m no expert on Irish law but I suspect they can’t compel private companies to restore whatever services or contracts they have withdrawn. This raises the possibility of the Irish army being tasked with delivering food parcels and gas bottles to the embassy gates. What do you think?
In any way you please the answer will be of no value in any case. At best she sees the enemy as the Russian state and can disassociate it from the people, at worst she sees the Russian people as the enemy and fair game.
You are viewing this too simplistically. She speaks Russian as her primary language, she was born in Russia and her father is Russian. She is able to differentiate between the victims and the perpetrators.
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Last edited by Paul; 05-12-2022 at 18:24.
Reason: Last comment removed.
There’s no prioritisation indicated by any of my posts. Ireland has obligations and should continue to adhere to them. If your contention is that Russian citizens around the world should be inconvenienced and essentially penalised for the actions of the Russian state then that’s a very, very slippery slope.
I can only surmise that they are over compensating for their inaction, or even tacit approval, of Nazi Germany.
---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
My contention is that Irish people can make their own decisions, something that Putin would deny his own citizens. You can make up other conversations if you wish.
Well they tried that, they voted against the EU on the Lisbon Treaty. But that wasn’t allowed so they were told to vote again, this time the right way. Sounds to me like something Putin would do?
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Well they tried that, they voted against the EU on the Lisbon Treaty. But that wasn’t allowed so they were told to vote again, this time the right way. Sounds to me like something Putin would do?
Incorrect, as usual. However, from what I understand, this is not the thread to discuss Eire and the EU.
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To lighten this thread here's something I bet you didn;t know came from Ukraine.
Quote:
For a long time, “Shchedryk” lived in Ukrainian folklore until a talented Ukrainian conductor Mykola Leontovych heard it and created a choral masterpiece. Now the song is known worldwide as "Carol of the Bells".
It’s a parallel to your point and valid, also not incorrect.
If you can provide an example of a referendum in Russia that the citizens voted no to, the government took on board their concerns and presented revised proposals to I think you and Ian would be in agreement.
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Known worldwide
Cant say I have heard of it.
It’s in the soundtracks of Home Alone and Harry Potter: The Prisoner of Azkaban, amongst others. In live performance it’s definitely a choral piece rather than something you’d try to get a congregation to sing, but it works very well in any Christmas film where you need a dramatic score. You’d probably recognise it if you heard it. That Youtube video is a news report with lots of talking over, so isn’t the clearest example. Try listening to this:
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