Russia has invaded Ukraine

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

You personally can not possibly verify anything you are told about this war. You can look online and read things people say but that verifies nothing

Not trusting people in power is my default. People I have got to know personally get my trust or not depending on their actions. I give everyone a chance.

Except people in power - you don’t give them a chance, as you haven’t met them personally. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Originally Posted by Hugh

Must be a real dilemma for you - who not to believe less, the USA or Zelensky…

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Trust only makes you easier to fool

To clarify - the point I was trying to make (obviously not clearly enough) was that jf has been very clear (repeatedly) in previous posts that he does not trust the USA or Zelensky - but there he was using something the USA said (in the Daily Mail, funnily enough, another one of his bête noires) to support his assertion that Zelensky couldn’t be trusted.

I was merely highlighting the cognitive dissonance…

[Itshim]

Sorry but I do not think that NATO would admit that it was russian . whether it is or not

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

Except people in power - you don’t give them a chance, as you haven’t met them personally. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Not really the personal meeting with those in power as in mind they always work to an agenda or a party line and in the case of politicians they rarely give a straight answer to any difficult questions. It is not really the person it is what is behind the person in power I do not trust

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

20 years of dedicated GRU information ops really have helped condition the wider battle space in Putin’s favour. Or parts of it anyway.

You say this as if the CIA haven't done the same for 50 years. The silence on this thread when it was revealed it was a Ukrainian missile, in contrast to the frothing at the mouth of the previous 24 hours, spoke volumes.

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Must be a real dilemma for you - who not to believe less, the USA or Zelensky…

When their interests diverge I'd reluctantly pick the USA. The comedian clearly isn't a trustworthy ally, indeed perhaps not an ally at all just a useful fall guy.

The USA for their faults are an ally with a mutual interest in not starting World War 3 for a small amount of already disputed land at the Russia/Ukraine border.

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I still think there is a chance it was an attempt at escalation and Zelensky knew about it all along. He can not be trusted I tell ya

Well, it's more likely than it actually being a Russian missile I'll give it that.

So, the Russians invading Crimea & other areas in 2014, and then the other Oblasts this year, makes those areas "a small amount of already disputed land at the Russia/Ukraine border."?

Pretty sure they weren’t "disputed" until the Russian forces & militias annexed them and turned them into "Peoples’ Republics"…

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So, the Russians invading Crimea & other areas in 2014, and then the other Oblasts this year, makes those areas "a small amount of already disputed land at the Russia/Ukraine border."?

Pretty sure they weren’t "disputed" until the Russian forces & militias annexed them and turned them into "Peoples’ Republics"…

And here I was assuming the World War 3 part was the key part of my post and not what constitutes a dispute over land in the past.

Let’s totally ignore how we got to where we are, and just focus on the bit that supports my proposition…

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Let’s totally ignore how we got to where we are, and just focus on the bit that supports my proposition…

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Well that's the NATO enforced Ukraine stance after all. Welcome, Hugh!

So has anyone got anything NEW to add to the discussion? Has anything actually happened in the last few days?Or are we still at the disagree about everything anyone has to say stage?

[Sephiroth]

A couple of days ago, Sunak visited Kiev.

Originally Posted by jfman

Well that's the NATO enforced Ukraine stance after all. Welcome, Hugh!

Thanks for the clarification - relieved to hear it’s nothing to do with Russia invading and annexing another countries lands, sorry, "already disputed land*", then saying they’d to the same to other ex-Sov countries…

Phew…

* ™ Russia Today

[Sephiroth]

It seems to me that Ukraine will be brought to its knees by reason of Russian missiles.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It seems to me that Ukraine will be brought to its knees by reason of Russian missiles.

There’s very, very little historical precedent for that. Bombing campaigns tend to harden resistance in the population. If the missiles were destroying Ukraine’s capacity to conduct military operations, you might have a point. But they aren’t.

Also, Russia is reportedly running out, hence using fewer premise ones more recently.

I still think this most likely ends unofficially if Ukraine takes back enough.