Britain outside the EU

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I believe that Telegraph readers are clever enough to see through this framing for what it really is - breaking international law.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...55456286294018

Where in the agreement does it say anything specific about chilled meat and even parcels?
As I've previously pointed out, it doesn't say anything specific, just that the details are up to the Joint Committee. GB and NI are in the SAME customs territory. That IS in the agreement, and as such there can't be different rules for GB and NI. WTO rules state that different customs rules=separate customs territories=full WTO tariffs between those territories(ie between GB & NI).
Why on earth are the EU objecting to parcels between GB and NI? The bigger food safety threat, is and always has been, from the EU, Eg Horse meat masquerading as Beef.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Taf

My wife pre-ordered a limited edition "Best of" CD from FNAC in France, international postage included.

The money was taken from Paypal on the day of release.

2 weeks later it had not arrived here, so I emailed FNAC.

Their response was an immediate refund and an apology stating that they no longer export to the UK due to the problems caused by Brexit.

What is meant to be the difference between exporting to the UK and any other non-EU country?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

The idiot is on the Jeremy vine show ,championing stupidity and lost causes.

Is that Cummings chap still popping up on telly?

[jonbxx]

Meh, not much of a trade war really is it? The June 1st deadline to align Northern Ireland with the EU single market for food has been there since day 1. The Telegraph probably needs to take this up with whatever numpty agreed to this being an issue in the first place...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Meh, not much of a trade war really is it? The June 1st deadline to align Northern Ireland with the EU single market for food has been there since day 1. The Telegraph probably needs to take this up with whatever numpty agreed to this being an issue in the first place...

I see that this becomes a forum question of whether or not we should have signed the deal with the EU.

Obviously not. We should have just walked away and we should do so now and have little if anything more to do with them on trade. They are the enemy, it’s proven and the numpty who didn’t have the guts to walk away shoulders the blame to that extent. But really it’s the intransigent and uncooperative EU that’s to blame for wanting to control everything.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where in the agreement does it say anything specific about chilled meat and even parcels?
As I've previously pointed out, it doesn't say anything specific, just that the details are up to the Joint Committee. GB and NI are in the SAME customs territory. That IS in the agreement, and as such there can't be different rules for GB and NI. WTO rules state that different customs rules=separate customs territories=full WTO tariffs between those territories(ie between GB & NI).
Why on earth are the EU objecting to parcels between GB and NI? The bigger food safety threat, is and always has been, from the EU, Eg Horse meat masquerading as Beef.

As below, David Frost agreed to align NI with the EU for food with effect from this month. It's a kind of Yes Minister situation when he criticises his own agreement.

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Meh, not much of a trade war really is it? The June 1st deadline to align Northern Ireland with the EU single market for food has been there since day 1. The Telegraph probably needs to take this up with whatever numpty agreed to this being an issue in the first place...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As below, David Frost agreed to align NI with the EU for food with effect from this month. It's a kind of Yes Minister situation when he criticises his own agreement.

But 6 months ago our sausages were OK to send to the EU. Those nasties are quite capable of extending alignment to any food that was previously OK. They are not our friends - they are the enemy.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

As below, David Frost agreed to align NI with the EU for food with effect from this month. It's a kind of Yes Minister situation when he criticises his own agreement.

Where in the Protocol(ie this International agreement that people keep going on about) does it specify that? It doesn't as I've previously pointed out. Any difficulties are whatever the EU decides they are going to be, as part of the Joint Committee.
That is before you get into the fact that the Withdrawal Agreement as a whole(including Protocols) is only meant to be an interim measure. That is set out in the International Agreement that is the Lisbon Treaty(ie EUs own rules). A Protocol to an Agreement expires when the Agreement itself expires. The Protocol is not a separate and distinct Agreement.

RECALLING that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom and will benefit from participation in the United Kingdom's independent trade policy,
HAVING REGARD to the importance of maintaining the integral place of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom’s internal market,
MINDFUL that the rights and obligations of Ireland under the rules of the Union's internal market and customs union must be fully respected,
HAVE AGREED UPON the following provisions, which shall be annexed to the Withdrawal Agreement:

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But 6 months ago our sausages were OK to send to the EU. Those nasties are quite capable of extending alignment to any food that was previously OK. They are not our friends - they are the enemy.

Your first sentence is incorrect making any conclusions drawn from it inherently flawed. Sausages could not be sent to the EU six months ago as they are categorised as very high risk.

The grace period to permit such products into NI ended this month having been extended from 1 January. David Frost put his name to the very such agreement which he is now criticising.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...orth-1.4417805

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But 6 months ago our sausages were OK to send to the EU. Those nasties are quite capable of extending alignment to any food that was previously OK. They are not our friends - they are the enemy.

It's not like the government didn't know this as we were part of the EU when the rules were written up in the first place. As soon as it was decided to leave the single market and abandon regulatory alignment, this was always going to happen. I'm not sure why the government is upset about this unless they thought they would be able to blag their way around single market rules.

If you leave the single market, that's what happens - leave means leave and all that.

[nomadking]

Where in the EU rules does it say that they control movement of goods within a non-EU country or between non-EU countries? They don't even control movement of goods within the EU.

It's only when any goods are marketed etc inside the EU that they have a say. A business in the EU, can manufacture goods that don't meet EU rules, as long as they don't market them in the EU.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

It's not like the government didn't know this as we were part of the EU when the rules were written up in the first place. As soon as it was decided to leave the single market and abandon regulatory alignment, this was always going to happen. I'm not sure why the government is upset about this unless they thought they would be able to blag their way around single market rules.

If you leave the single market, that's what happens - leave means leave and all that.

And Leave means the EU can't tell us what we can and can't ship between GB and NI. This is NOT about trade with the EU, but the EU controlling trade within the UK.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Where in the EU rules does it say that they control movement of goods within a non-EU country or between non-EU countries? They don't even control movement of goods within the EU.

It's only when any goods are marketed etc inside the EU that they have a say. A business in the EU, can manufacture goods that don't meet EU rules, as long as they don't market them in the EU.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------


And Leave means the EU can't tell us what we can and can't ship between GB and NI. This is NOT about trade with the EU, but the EU controlling trade within the UK.

I think you must have forgotten that the UK agreed a separate arrangement to keep NI within many aspects of the European Single Market. This is to ensure there was no physical border between NI and RoI. Some have described it as a border in the Irish Sea.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think you must have forgotten that the UK agreed a separate arrangement to keep NI within many aspects of the European Single Market. This is to ensure there was no physical border between NI and RoI. Some have described it as a border in the Irish Sea.

The Protocol is part of the WA. The WA has ended.
The EU agreed to maintain the GB-NI customs union and single market.
There is NOTHING in the EU single market that says they can control goods within a non-EU state.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The Protocol is part of the WA. The WA has ended.
The EU agreed to maintain the GB-NI customs union and single market.
There is NOTHING in the EU single market that says they can control goods within a non-EU state.

Why do you think David Frost is getting so worked up about a bit of paper he signed and is now regretting it? Just for the hell of it? Clearly not! He knows what he agreed to in the Northern Ireland protocol, even if you don't.
As a reminder, the grace period allowing imports of sausages and other chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland (they're usually required to be frozen when they enter the single market) is set to expire at the end of this month. That's a UK concern. EU concerns include Britain failing to implement basic parts of the new arrangements, including building and staffing border control posts for goods.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Why do you think David Frost is getting so worked up about a bit of paper he signed and is now regretting it? Just for the hell of it? Clearly not! He knows what he agreed to in the Northern Ireland protocol, even if you don't.

The ONLY thing in the NI Protocol is that many issues, including parcels from GB, have to be agreed by the Joint Committee. Absolutely nothing in there about blocking movement of goods and items. If the EU decides to NOT come to an agreement on the various issues, then THEY are breaking the agreement.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Your first sentence is incorrect making any conclusions drawn from it inherently flawed. Sausages could not be sent to the EU six months ago as they are categorised as very high risk.

The grace period to permit such products into NI ended this month having been extended from 1 January. David Frost put his name to the very such agreement which he is now criticising.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...orth-1.4417805

Whether it was 6 months ago or when we were in the EU isn't the point. Were were recently allowed to import raw meat into the EU and now we're not.