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Posts: 36,907
Re: Coronavirus
Lockdowns work overall - of course they do. It just depends what your “overall” is. The overall aim of a lockdown is to get transmission low enough for hospitals and the economy to function. The overall aim is not to eliminate covid from the population, regardless of what anyone says (Nicola Sturgeon liked to suggest she had a zero covid strategy in the early days ... she has quietly dropped that now). For quite some time now it has been acknowledged that a vaccine is the only actual exit route from the disruption to our lives.
Define what works means in this context? They clearly work in reducing pressure on hospitals as you say and they work in reducing transmission, cases and deaths as well.
My context is clear, you added "and" on as well. Now you have to show 12 months on where transmission and deaths has been reduced. Cases I have ignored as these could include asymptomaic or false positives. You got to love the Government for highlighting "cases" rather those who are actually suffering from it.
Helps SAGE with their scaremongering.
---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Lockdowns work overall - of course they do. It just depends what your “overall” is. The overall aim of a lockdown is to get transmission low enough for hospitals and the economy to function. The overall aim is not to eliminate covid from the population, regardless of what anyone says (Nicola Sturgeon liked to suggest she had a zero covid strategy in the early days ... she has quietly dropped that now). For quite some time now it has been acknowledged that a vaccine is the only actual exit route from the disruption to our lives.
I'm sorry Chris, but I disagree and the answer will only come out afterwards. It only delayed the spread rightly to reduce NHS pressure.
I see you've at least dropped that ludicrous tagline from beneath your user name.
The fact other governments could have made better decisions is neither here nor there to your original claim that I debunked - as I say it's a matter of public record - that they ignored SAGE advice on both lockdowns and this had a catastrophic impact modelled as tens of thousands of deaths.
Shielding the vulnerable was perfectly sensible before we had the vaccine, because without that all we could do was slow it down.
As I said, there were other aspects over and above the Sage advice that needed to be taken account of. The government listened to ALL the arguments. Taking a different decision does not necessarily mean you ignored the advice. It was not taken for the reasons we will hear about when the review is forthcoming.
Shielding the vulnerable was perfectly sensible before we had the vaccine, because without that all we could do was slow it down.
As I said, there were other aspects over and above the Sage advice that needed to be taken account of. The government listened to ALL the arguments. Taking a different decision does not necessarily mean you ignored the advice. It was not taken for the reasons we will hear about when the review is forthcoming.
You mean that review in at least 5yrs or do we have to wait for lockdown to end in 10 before it starts?
So SAGE become the Government. What a stupid uninformed point of view.
No worse than your ability to read, evidently.
Quote:
The Government have to take in advice from many areas, attempt to weigh the pro's and con's and proceed accordingly.
Indeed, it’s Government responsibility for the outcomes as I was stating to Old Boy. The Government tried to drag the “three week” lockdown to the Easter holidays as it’d have less economic impact. Not Whitty, not SAGE...
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Don't forget the SAGE advice was based on modelling since shown inept at best.
Has it?
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The current models for unlocking are not based on seasonal changes or actual vaccine take up so how can they be trusted?
It has still yet to be proven that lockdowns actually work, they may in the short term to reduce pressure on hospitals but do they work overall?
Many people look to the far east to prove the effectivence of lockdowns/mask wearing without factoring in societal differences.
New Zealand is often brought up as an example but far easier to control the spread than any other 1st world country.
As Society is responsible for everything it does for and on behalf of itself why should any Government need to legislate what that society does?
Ah the “societal differences” trope.
As for your final point why have a speed limit? Require seatbelts? There’s a whole swathe of activity Governments don’t trust individuals with.
---------- Post added at 06:47 ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Shielding the vulnerable was perfectly sensible before we had the vaccine, because without that all we could do was slow it down.
As I said, there were other aspects over and above the Sage advice that needed to be taken account of. The government listened to ALL the arguments. Taking a different decision does not necessarily mean you ignored the advice. It was not taken for the reasons we will hear about when the review is forthcoming.
So European folk aren’t at risk despite a stalling vaccine rollout? It can only be one or the other, OB.
I eagerly await the review. The trailers for the bold Dom’s evidence have been good so far.
It was joglynne (I’ve been taking part too, along with 4.6 million others)
__________________ There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it. If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
On your second comment, it falls down when public health is involved unless society provides its' own healthcare service. It's governments role to keep us safe. It's why we have the police, army, etc. If suggesting and asking nicely to act safely doesn't work, then governments legislate. It's why we have speed limits. As I have said before, we in the UK are 'soft' when it comes to healthcare as we know that the NHS will always be there if we mess up. If that safety net weren't present, people would be a lot more careful!
Libertariansim like communism is a nice idea on paper but doesn't work in the real world.
To those of you wondering about the Zoe app Maggy posted earlier (perhaps not this tread) here's more info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
It was joglynne (I’ve been taking part too, along with 4.6 million others)
Yup Hugh, twas me. Nice to know someone else who has been taking part.
Just in case anyone else would care to take part, here's a link to the app which also contains links to all the reports and updates that have been posted so far.
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, www.daves-world.co.uk. A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
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Posts: 16,872
Re: Coronavirus
Us Brits can strike back at the EU and boycott all EU countries for holiday.
Go to Iceland, Norway or Switzerland none of which are in the EU.
__________________ STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th, wearing a mask and she still might be alive today.
Us Brits can strike back at the EU and boycott all EU countries for holiday.
Go to Iceland, Norway or Switzerland none of which are in the EU.
I think we'll all be holidaying in the UK this year through necessity not choice. And Switzerland has not yet approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, so I'm not sure if they would consider you vaccinated if you've had that vaccine.
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