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Partygate & Beergate discussion
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Old Yesterday, 10:13   #2176
Mick
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Maggy View Post
Sigh! I see the discussion hasn't moved along.
Anyway the Tories attack on Starmer is a mistake because it keeps everyone's mind firmly on what preceded that. Not much point in kicking it into the long grass if you keep getting the strimmer out to find specific targets that suit your agenda.
And I can see your agenda, you won’t shut me up Maggy. Just because you and others can’t stand the attacks on the pathetic hypocrisy of yours and others precious Labour Party who are certainly no better, doesn’t mean I won’t stop raising it in this thread.

Now, where were we…. TBC.

---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
I mean 'dire' is very much spin though isn't it? It's slightly better than 2018 overall which is when Labour had polling numbers consistent with their 2017 election performance. Which is quite a recovery from 2019.

It's not amazing, it's not great. But it's not bad either. It's a decent performance. Especially in the context of where they've come from.
I think you’re trying really hard to spin it as good, actually. It was an exceptionally bad result, especially for Starmer. All the accusations, fines levied at the Tories, Labour should have raced ahead and completely obliterated every Tory council seat out there, but they didn’t, Tories even took seats from Labour.

Starmer is a toxic brand to Labour and even more so now, having now being alleged and he himself, under criminal investigation, organising a piss up and curry night, during lockdown rules he voted for!
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Old Yesterday, 10:25   #2177
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I think youíre trying really hard to spin it as good, actually. It was an exceptionally bad result, especially for Starmer. All the accusations, fines levied at the Tories, Labour should have raced ahead and completely obliterated every Tory council seat out there, but they didnít, Tories even took seats from Labour.
!
Labour gained seats from a high baseline. I don't see how that's 'exceptionally bad'. And yes the Tories took seats from Labour, that happens when you have thousands of seats across the country up for election.

Quote:
Starmer is a toxic brand to Labour and even more so now, having now being alleged and he himself, under criminal investigation, organising a piss up and curry night, during lockdown rules he voted for!
And you'll say the next leader is toxic as well.

Corbyn was toxic to the Labour brand. Starmer is just boring. Neutral.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37   #2178
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post


And you'll say the next leader is toxic as well.
Will I really?

Not if itís Andy Burnham I wonít.

See?
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Old Yesterday, 11:50   #2179
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Corbyn was toxic to the Labour brand. Starmer is just boring. Neutral.
I think Starmer was the right person to clean up the Labour Party but they probably need someone else to capture the public's imagination. He did well on suggesting a windfall tax on energy companies but the vision that you had from Brown or Blair doesn't seem to be there.
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Old Yesterday, 16:48   #2180
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Johnson is toast anyway. Itís a case of keeping Labour in chaos chasing their tail until the Tories find a new leader since Crown Prince Sunak cocked it up.
Youíd love that if it was true. But it ainít. Boris is living to fight another day or two yet.
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Old Yesterday, 16:52   #2181
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Youíd love that if it was true. But it ainít. Boris is living to fight another day or two yet.
Only because there's nobody else. Once there's a clear successor he's a goner.
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Old Yesterday, 16:53   #2182
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Maggy View Post
Sigh! I see the discussion hasn't moved along.
Anyway the Tories attack on Starmer is a mistake because it keeps everyone's mind firmly on what preceded that. Not much point in kicking it into the long grass if you keep getting the strimmer out to find specific targets that suit your agenda.
Starmer started the political attacks on the PM. Donít expect him not to fight fire with fire.

What is important is Ukraine, levelling up, tackling the cost of living crisis without damaging further the Covid-hit economy, ironing out the remaining Brexit issues and dealing effectively with the boat people.

Thatís what the public want, but Starmer just wants to talk about cake.
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Old Yesterday, 16:56   #2183
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Youíd love that if it was true. But it ainít. Boris is living to fight another day or two yet.
If the Sue Gray Report finds him guilty then he's toast. He's currently just the first sitting Prime Minister of the country to have been found to have broken the law.
He's no electoral asset to the Conservatives especially in the south of England. So the sooner they replace him, the better the Party's chances should be in the next election.
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Old Yesterday, 16:59   #2184
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Because heís lost the argument on the basis of the facts. His only recourse (given his basic inability ever to admit to being wrong about anything) is therefore to change the facts so that heís right.

Therefore in OBís head the only available, relevant information is the cake, which may be portrayed as an absurd basis for a fine so long as it is isolated from all the other evidence (e.g. the presence of other people who clearly had nothing to do with his work).
The argument is all about cake. If the cake wasnít presented, there would have been no allegation of a social event.

The PM and other members of the committee were gathered for a legitimate meeting. There were only two others who came in for a few minutes - his wife and the interior designer, both of whom were in regular contact with the PM and others on the committee.

So perhaps you should stop being rude and attacking me and concentrate on the facts, or it will seem to others that youíve lost this argument.

Well, you have, actually. Good luck with the next crop of fines.
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Old Yesterday, 17:01   #2185
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Starmer started the political attacks on the PM. Donít expect him not to fight fire with fire.

What is important is Ukraine, levelling up, tackling the cost of living crisis without damaging further the Covid-hit economy, ironing out the remaining Brexit issues and dealing effectively with the boat people.

Thatís what the public want, but Starmer just wants to talk about cake.
Anyone else apart from me hearing the words, "Miss, he started it first!"
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Old Yesterday, 17:02   #2186
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If the Sue Gray Report finds him guilty then he's toast. He's currently just the first sitting Prime Minister of the country to have been found to have broken the law.
He's no electoral asset to the Conservatives especially in the south of England. So the sooner they replace him, the better the Party's chances should be in the next election.
I know thatís what you think, Andrew, but you would be wrong about that. Like you were wrong about Boris being toast if he was fined.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

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Anyone else apart from me hearing the words, "Miss, he started it first!"
Well, you look pretty daft complaining about the Conservatives attacking Labour when itís self defence!
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