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Will Scotland Leave the UK?
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Old 28-08-2020, 10:16   #3331
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
At least I'm being specific on negotiable items. I don't recall reading anything specific from you on any of the topics that amuse us.
Could be wrong - you might be able to dig something up.

Some people on this thread seem to think you're some sort of economist. I don't!


Could be one of these economists


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Old 28-08-2020, 12:19   #3332
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
At least I'm being specific on negotiable items. I don't recall reading anything specific from you on any of the topics that amuse us.
Could be wrong - you might be able to dig something up.

Some people on this thread seem to think you're some sort of economist. I don't!

In fairness Seph, I wasn't sure if your post was tongue in cheek or not.

For starters, giving Scotland a 60% hurdle when the Brexit vote just needed a simple majority is just going to inflame matters and play to the nationalist cause. And rejoin upto two years incentives Scots to give it a go as there is a lifeboat waiting if it all goes pear-shaped.
I'll leave it here.
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Old 28-08-2020, 12:38   #3333
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
In fairness Seph, I wasn't sure if your post was tongue in cheek or not.

For starters, giving Scotland a 60% hurdle when the Brexit vote just needed a simple majority is just going to inflame matters and play to the nationalist cause. And rejoin upto two years incentives Scots to give it a go as there is a lifeboat waiting if it all goes pear-shaped.
I'll leave it here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
At least I'm being specific on negotiable items. I don't recall reading anything specific from you on any of the topics that amuse us.
Could be wrong - you might be able to dig something up.

Some people on this thread seem to think you're some sort of economist. I don't!
Andrew, my post was a straight criticism of my friend jfman's argumentative approach.

As to my list, I set the bar higher than could be realistically achieved. I definitely want to avoid the 52/48 situation that dogged Brexit. I also wouldn't want to let the Scots get away with milking the UK - much in my sod 'em vein if they really vote for independence.

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Old 28-08-2020, 21:11   #3334
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post


Andrew, my post was a straight criticism of my friend jfman's argumentative approach.

As to my list, I set the bar higher than could be realistically achieved. I definitely want to avoid the 52/48 situation that dogged Brexit. I also wouldn't want to let the Scots get away with milking the UK - much in my sod 'em vein if they really vote for independence.

He's the same in nearly every post mate, if you don't agree with his views then you are wrong!
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Old 29-08-2020, 16:55   #3335
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
In fairness Seph, I wasn't sure if your post was tongue in cheek or not.

For starters, giving Scotland a 60% hurdle when the Brexit vote just needed a simple majority is just going to inflame matters and play to the nationalist cause. And rejoin upto two years incentives Scots to give it a go as there is a lifeboat waiting if it all goes pear-shaped.
I'll leave it here.
Indeed, it specifically goes against the 'norms' we've established on referenda on constitutional matters.

The rest of the post is, broadly, confrontational. Indeed, had the EU drawn such arbitrary red (or blue) lines in terms of the UK future relationship withe the EU many on this forum would be furious.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
He's the same in nearly every post mate, if you don't agree with his views then you are wrong!
I've not said, in this thread, that anyone is out and out wrong. There's a few people misunderstanding how macroeconomic levers work, but I don't think they are approaching the discussion in bad faith.

Seph is, rightly I suppose, creating a high bar in England's interest (why wouldn't England seek to do so?) whether any reasonable person in Scotland would agree with them or not is a different matter.
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Old 29-08-2020, 17:08   #3336
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Indeed, it specifically goes against the 'norms' we've established on referenda on constitutional matters.

The rest of the post is, broadly, confrontational. Indeed, had the EU drawn such arbitrary red (or blue) lines in terms of the UK future relationship withe the EU many on this forum would be furious.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------



I've not said, in this thread, that anyone is out and out wrong. There's a few people misunderstanding how macroeconomic levers work, but I don't think they are approaching the discussion in bad faith.

Seph is, rightly I suppose, creating a high bar in England's interest (why wouldn't England seek to do so?) whether any reasonable person in Scotland would agree with them or not is a different matter.
The EU vs Scotland thing is a complete red herring and bear no relation to one another. For starters, the EU is trying to expand its centralised competencies whereas the UK is devolving them to its sub-nations.

As regards the high bar, that could, I suppose, be considered to be in the interests of Wales and NI as well. It's difficult to see, though, how that high bar benefits the rest of the UK. It simply tells the fools in Scotland who want to secede that they are on a road to disaster and don't expect any help from the British (or whatever you call it) tax payer. Really, sod 'em. Those who want to remain with the UK can emigrate south or west.
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Old 01-09-2020, 16:13   #3337
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Little Jimmy Crankie is at it again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53938337
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Old 01-09-2020, 16:25   #3338
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Is any of that investment money coming from taxpayers as a whole?
Because if so, and they leave the UK, the value would need to be reckoned into the settlement.
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Old 01-09-2020, 16:25   #3339
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Little Jimmy Crankie is at it again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53938337
How long till that needs bailing out.
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Old 02-09-2020, 14:05   #3340
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

As the Scottish regional office of the UK Labour Party seeks out it’s tenth leader since devolution how long before they realise they are out of touch with voters on the constitution?
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Old 02-09-2020, 14:12   #3341
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
As the Scottish regional office of the UK Labour Party seeks out itís tenth leader since devolution how long before they realise they are out of touch with voters on the constitution?

What about the other 50%, are they out of touch with the SNP?
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Old 02-09-2020, 14:28   #3342
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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What about the other 50%, are they out of touch with the SNP?
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oters-lost-snp

I care not for the Labour regional office in Scotland, but the evidence is that it has lost, and will continue to lose voters unless it finds itself a new position. In 2019 just shy of 40% of their own voters favoured independence. Itís position is untenable. Changing leader is just shuffling the deck chairs.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ndence-1402354
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Old 02-09-2020, 14:42   #3343
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oters-lost-snp

I care not for the Labour regional office in Scotland, but the evidence is that it has lost, and will continue to lose voters unless it finds itself a new position. In 2019 just shy of 40% of their own voters favoured independence. Itís position is untenable. Changing leader is just shuffling the deck chairs.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ndence-1402354
That doesn't mean that they will automatically vote in favour of the SNP.
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Old 02-09-2020, 14:53   #3344
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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That doesn't mean that they will automatically vote in favour of the SNP.
They may not, however thatís irrelevant to my point. Labour is floundering, itís current position isnít viable. They must, rationally, look at it and wonder how they can win elections in the future. Or are they resigned to their long term fate?
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Old 02-09-2020, 16:04   #3345
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Labour in Scotland has had the ground swept from beneath its feet because the SNP stole its message. As of right now, there is a belief in the favelas of North Lanarkshire and Dundee that only an independent Scotland can deliver the sort of welfarism Labour spent the entire 20th century telling them was their right. They believe this because that’s the message the SNP went big on in the 2014 referendum. For the same reason, the SNP vote in other parts of Scotland has become soft and vulnerable to the Tories.

The SNP has shaken off the “Tartan Tory” jibe of the late 20th century by presenting themselves as the Tartan Socialists of the 21st. I freely admit, if they ever manage to unite left and right around a convincing separatist narrative, they probably would win an Indyref, and do so fairly convincingly. Thus far they have failed to do so, however. Their biggest failure in 2014 was to concentrate far too much on the daily politics of an independent Scotland, with the so-called white paper reading more like a 1970s Labour party manifesto than the vision statement it needed to be.
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