Will Scotland Leave the UK? - Page 223

nomadking · 03-09-2020, 21:13

Would that be mainly English Train/Transport unions? Should somebody from Gibraltar be commenting on Scottish politics?

jfman · 03-09-2020, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Would that be mainly English Train/Transport unions? Should somebody from Gibraltar be commenting on Scottish politics?

Everyone is entitled to free speech. However the value of their input should always be weighted against their own involvement and self interest.

The statement is from ASLEF and quotes ASLEF Scotland - their members in Scotland are certainly most entitled to have their opinion listened to. It would be interesting to know if their UK operation interfered (or not) in the statement. We know for certain that the UK Labour Party is seeking to impose its will on the regional branch.

papa smurf · 03-09-2020, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

More disaster for the Scottish branch of the UK Labour Party as Sir Keir’s efforts to remove Richard Leonard fall on deaf ears. Some unelected Lords preach the best thing for the party after Rachel Reeves does - but doesn’t - tell him to go.

Train drivers union backs Leonard calling it a Blairite putsch.

Oh dear...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-54004551

nomadking · 03-09-2020, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Everyone is entitled to free speech. However the value of their input should always be weighted against their own involvement and self interest.

The statement is from ASLEF and quotes ASLEF Scotland - their members in Scotland are certainly most entitled to have their opinion listened to. It would be interesting to know if their UK operation interfered (or not) in the statement. We know for certain that the UK Labour Party is seeking to impose its will on the regional branch.

The head of the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association(TSSA) has also spoken out, and he is from Gibraltar.

jfman · 03-09-2020, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The head of the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association(TSSA) has also spoken out, and he is from Gibraltar.

His membership, who presumably give him a mandate to speak, are not.

nomadking · 03-09-2020, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

His membership, who presumably give him a mandate to speak, are not.

Silly question I know, but did he ask them? Did he ask anybody in the union? The majority of them will still not be Scottish. Whatever way you look at it, not a trade union matter, so he has no mandate on it.

jfman · 04-09-2020, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Silly question I know, but did he ask them? Did he ask anybody in the union? The majority of them will still not be Scottish. Whatever way you look at it, not a trade union matter, so he has no mandate on it.

I’m sure it’s up to his membership to decide what he has a mandate to do (or otherwise) and not a right wing member of the Cable Forum!

It’s more excruciating embarrassment for the Scotland branch of the UK Labour Party that they are unable to capitalise on the incompetence of Red Card Ross who presumably wilfully misrepresented the words of the National Union of Farmers as he advocated a policy that he himself voted against!

I truly want to see better from the opposition parties in Scotland to strengthen our democracy. However, they are not offering me much to have faith in.

jfman · 06-09-2020, 00:05

Baroness Davidson is angry about the use of her new title. Bless.

If only she stood for re-election this could all be avoided.

The plight of the North Britain regional branch of the UK Labour Party continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-to-oust-him

If they sincerely wish to go into the Scottish Parliament elections with an interim leader while the Conservatives go for part time Red Card Ross I expect the SNP will absolutely annihilate them.

1andrew1 · 06-09-2020, 01:47

Surely the problem for the Labour Party in Scotland is that independence for Scotland means the Conservative Party will be stronger in Westminster?

OLD BOY · 06-09-2020, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Surely the problem for the Labour Party in Scotland is that independence for Scotland means the Conservative Party will be stronger in Westminster?

Which you would have thought would have resulted in more effort being put into winning Scottish seats. Unfortunately for them, Labour has lost its way. They need to find some more imaginative, positive minded and engaging people if they are to drag themselves out of this political mud.

**Chris** · 06-09-2020, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which you would have thought would have resulted in more effort being put into winning Scottish seats. Unfortunately for them, Labour has lost its way. They need to find some more imaginative, positive minded and engaging people if they are to drag themselves out of this political mud.

Labour doesn’t know how to win seats in Scotland because it spent decades taking those it held for granted. It used to be said that the Labour vote in North Lanarkshire (lots of coal and steel) was weighed, rather than counted. The party grew complacent on an epic scale, and when the SNP became adept at articulating a centre-left message (historically Scottish independence was the hobby of middle classes, mostly in the north and north east, with time on their hands) the Labour vote began to wobble. The Yes (overwhelmingly SNP) campaign in 2014 hitched that centre-left message to a means of policy delivery that depended on independence. That is effectively now the status quo in Scottish politics. I happen to think this state of affairs lacks depth of conviction; once you strip away the woad-wearing, flag-waving lunacy there are just lots of working class (and workless class) voters in west-central and east Scotland who have been persuaded that their route to free stuff depends on separatism. This position is wide open to challenge, and the Tories have made some progress, but to really turn the tide against the Nats, Labour is going to have to find its voice. Whether it can do that in the next 8 months remains to be seen.

**Damien** · 07-09-2020, 09:04

Good point here: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ion-different/

This time for No/Remain campaign cannot concede so easily on the question itself. It was a gift to the Yes campaign for them to be the Yes campaign. Better Together contorted itself in an attempt to frame itself as the more positive option.

It should be Remain/Leave as it was for the EU campaign.

papa smurf · 07-09-2020, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Good point here: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ion-different/

This time for No/Remain campaign cannot concede so easily on the question itself. It was a gift to the Yes campaign for them to be the Yes campaign. Better Together contorted itself in an attempt to frame itself as the more positive option.

It should be Remain/Leave as it was for the EU campaign.

Followed by 4 years of denial

Carth · 07-09-2020, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Followed by 4 years of denial

4 years of denial, numerous legal challenges, many laughable resignation threats, quite a few dire warnings from various business groups and ministerial quangos, and an absolute torrent of tears

1andrew1 · 07-09-2020, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which you would have thought would have resulted in more effort being put into winning Scottish seats. Unfortunately for them, Labour has lost its way. They need to find some more imaginative, positive minded and engaging people if they are to drag themselves out of this political mud.

Ageeed and I think that's the point JFMan has been making too. Unfortunately for Labour, it seems they're stuck with a no-name English friend of Corbyn's to lead them in Scotland for some time to come.