Traffic Shaping - Page 4

MovedGoalPosts · 31-03-2006, 20:22

I wonder how traffic shaping of P2P stuff relates to the Bittorent trial

31-03-2006, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

I wonder how traffic shaping of P2P stuff relates to the Bittorent trial

You can bet they will Tag there system so it is not affected.

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

I wonder how traffic shaping of P2P stuff relates to the Bittorent trial

The one backed with Caching servers from Cachelogic?

Those caches both serve subscribers on the network AND subscribers off the network. They can impersonate normal users, so that someone off network rather than downloading off you instead downloads off a Cachelogic box pretending to be you.

The result of this is of course that ntl save on upstream capacity on the cable network. You aren't uploading because a caching server is doing your uploading for you. You aren't costing them as much in off-network traffic as you're doing at least some of your downloading from the caching server.

Traffic shaping in this instance can eliminate the need to use WCCP or another load balancing protocol, the traffic shaping kit can transparently redirect your traffic to the caches to achieve the above results.

31-03-2006, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

I wonder how traffic shaping of P2P stuff relates to the Bittorent trial

The one backed with Caching servers from Cachelogic?

Those caches both serve subscribers on the network AND subscribers off the network. They can impersonate normal users, so that someone off network rather than downloading off you instead downloads off a Cachelogic box pretending to be you.

The result of this is of course that ntl save on upstream capacity on the cable network. You aren't uploading because a caching server is doing your uploading for you. You aren't costing them as much in off-network traffic as you're doing at least some of your downloading from the caching server.

Traffic shaping in this instance can eliminate the need to use WCCP or another load balancing protocol, the traffic shaping kit can transparently redirect your traffic to the caches to achieve the above results.

Smart ****

Fawkes · 31-03-2006, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

<snip>
Personally, if I want to encrypt my packets, and encrypted packets get the lowest possible priority, then I would look elsewhere for an ISP

</snip>

Thats fine, until all ISP start shaping, just like most of them cap now.
And in a month or three they will start offering unshaped accounts at a higher price, its just another way to get more money out of us!

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlimited

Smart ****

I just RTFM

Frank · 31-03-2006, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

Those caches both serve subscribers on the network AND subscribers off the network. They can impersonate normal users, so that someone off network rather than downloading off you instead downloads off a Cachelogic box pretending to be you.

I'm all for caching if it reduces costs and speeds up the network, but there are some interesting legal issues in there.

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

I'm all for caching if it reduces costs and speeds up the network, but there are some interesting legal issues in there.

Not at all.

The Cachelogics store the 'indexes' to their data purely as hashes, same as other P2P 'clients' do.

There is no way for anyone to know exactly what's on the Cachelogics, therefore the ISPs can claim common carriage as they have no way of knowing what the boxes are storing.

If a content provider wants something removed they can, of course, ask for it to be, they just have to supply a really large hash of the file

It's more legally sound than newsgroup servers for example.

Frank · 31-03-2006, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Thats fine, until all ISP start shaping, just like most of them cap now.
And in a month or three they will start offering unshaped accounts at a higher price, its just another way to get more money out of us!

That, my friend, is why we exist. If enough people shout loud enough that they don't want shaped internet, then (according to the theory at least) we should be able to affect change.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

I'm all for caching if it reduces costs and speeds up the network, but there are some interesting legal issues in there.

Not at all.

The Cachelogics store the 'indexes' to their data purely as hashes, same as other P2P 'clients' do.

There is no way for anyone to know exactly what's on the Cachelogics, therefore the ISPs can claim common carriage as they have no way of knowing what the boxes are storing.

If a content provider wants something removed they can, of course, ask for it to be, they just have to supply a really large hash of the file

It's more legally sound than newsgroup servers for example.

Okay great, bring them on. But this is not the same as traffic shaping.

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

Okay great, bring them on. But this is not the same as traffic shaping.

Who said anything about the caches supplying the bandwidth at full rates?

It's another way to shape

Already systems exist that redirect P2P packets within providers networks to avoid using bandwidth outside them, no reason why this can't be progressed further to a comprehensive caching, rate limiting and shaping solution.

Toto · 31-03-2006, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

I'm all for caching if it reduces costs and speeds up the network, but there are some interesting legal issues in there.

Absolutely Frank.

The implications that an ISP would cache files for download, where the distribution of those files could be, and will likely be in breach of copyright laws are interesting indeed. I am not sure an ISP can hide behind conduit laws if this was the case.

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Absolutely Frank.

The implications that an ISP would cache files for download, where the distribution of those files could be, and will likely be in breach of copyright laws are interesting indeed. I am not sure an ISP can hide behind conduit laws if this was the case.

They manage it fine for Usenet.

See my earlier post for why legally these are more robust than news servers.

mudkumpf · 31-03-2006, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

While encryption might prevent the provider from seeing exactly what you're doing there aren't many things that open 50 connections instantly and none of them are legit.

Hehe - not wishing to start a flamewar here, but what's "not legit" about bitTorrent in and of itself? You can download 5 CD Linux Distros on BitTorrent and that's 100% Legit.....

Of course, I'm making no statement here about the prevailing uses of BitTorrent and P2P applications, but I thought I shoudl point it out.

Move along - nothing to see here....

Muds

Frank · 31-03-2006, 21:04

Did any ntl customers get an email about this change to the User Policy from ntl?

Ignition · 31-03-2006, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

Did any ntl customers get an email about this change to the User Policy from ntl?

Stop making posts about our MSN conversation

I'm giving you ideas obviously