Brexit (Old)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Are you pleased with what the Cabinet have decided, Old Boy?

Well, I don't have the full details yet, do you? As long as we are out of the EU, the single market and the customs union, I am very likely to be happy with this White Paper.

An amicable deal with the EU is preferable, but in the absence of that, we should be prepared to walk away.

---------- Post added at 00:40 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------

Originally Posted by daveeb

I'll preempt OB's reply and say it's probably academic as the EU will doubtless say it's cherry picking and knock it back but seems like progress. Nice work Theresa and I never thought i'd have cause to say that !

It's in the EU's court now, so we shall see.

I think what we don't want is you guys trying to undermine the UK's position on this. So a bit of quiet on this would be good.

Fat chance.

---------- Post added at 00:48 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

They brought it upon themselves through sheer laziness according to this article.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018...-see-dead-ends

Has your tummy been tickled yet, Andrew?

I'm sorry, but do you really think life is all about rolling over and accepting what's coming to you?

Can I just remind you that the electorate voted to exit the EU? You have done your best to undermine what the majority want by posting every negative story you can muster. In the end, Theresa May will prove you to be wrong. She is more of a 'man' than so many of her wimpy detractors.

Prepare for the final assault. Not long now!

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes she has done a rather good job of sidelining the Brexiters. They have been found out to have no plans or backbone. Operation save the UK from this disaster has had a good day

I'm not sure that I understand your language, Mr K. Are you speaking European? I guess you must be.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's in the EU's court now, so we shall see.

I think what we don't want is you guys trying to undermine the UK's position on this. So a bit of quiet on this would be good.

Fat chance. [COLOR="Silver"]

No one is trying to undermine anything as HMG warring cabinet factions have done a pretty good job of that..

---------- Post added at 05:42 ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Has your tummy been tickled yet, Andrew?

I'm sorry, but do you really think life is all about rolling over and accepting what's coming to you?

Can I just remind you that the electorate voted to exit the EU? You have done your best to undermine what the majority want by posting every negative story you can muster. In the end, Theresa May will prove you to be wrong. She is more of a 'man' than so many of her wimpy detractors.

Prepare for the final assault. Not long now!

Not that l agree with some of Andrew's posts but you have heard of one being able to voice ones opinion in this democracy of ours OB unless you want a authoritarian government.

[heero_yuy]

Hopefully the EU will reject this shabby compromise nonsense and then there'll be no time left for yet another capitulation to the remainers and we ACTUALLY leave on WTO rules.

Let's try and keep to debating and have less of the personal digs

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, I don't have the full details yet, do you? As long as we are out of the EU, the single market and the customs union, I am very likely to be happy with this White Paper.

An amicable deal with the EU is preferable, but in the absence of that, we should be prepared to walk away.

Thanks for your reply. I think there's two things to analyse:
1) Effectiveness of Theresa May on Friday
2) The White Paper

1) I would praise her for stepping up and showing some leadership skills. I think you can do this without endorsing the White Paper.
2) Not as bad for the country's economy as I feared but we will be an effective rule-taker so less democratic than either being in or 100% out of the EU.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's in the EU's court now, so we shall see.

I think what we don't want is you guys trying to undermine the UK's position on this. So a bit of quiet on this would be good.

Fat chance.

I'm not sure people debating on an internet forum will impact future negotiations, Old Boy.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Has your tummy been tickled yet, Andrew?

I'm sorry, but do you really think life is all about rolling over and accepting what's coming to you?

Can I just remind you that the electorate voted to exit the EU? You have done your best to undermine what the majority want by posting every negative story you can muster. In the end, Theresa May will prove you to be wrong. She is more of a 'man' than so many of her wimpy detractors.

You seem not to have had a chance to digest that article, Old Boy. Let me explain.

I think that if the Cabinet Brexiters had come up with a firm, worked through proposal and got countries like Australia, India and the US on board for an alternative trade deal then they would have had an alternative solution which the Cabinet Remainers would have found harder to repudiate.

Instead, she was faced with the realistic prospect of large chunks of industry leaving the country and so there was no option of a clean Brexit.

Clever populist slogans may get you into power but once you're in power, you need to deliver. Brexiters delivered less than Northern Rail and Thameslink put together, and were the architects of their own downfall. This is how I see history will write up Brexit.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, I don't have the full details yet, do you? As long as we are out of the EU, the single market and the customs union, I am very likely to be happy with this White Paper.

It looks like we'll be in some form of hybrid customs union.

It's in the EU's court now, so we shall see.

I think what we don't want is you guys trying to undermine the UK's position on this. So a bit of quiet on this would be good.

You understand the EU isn't likely be using our posts on here as a barometer for UK public opinion right?

Can I just remind you that the electorate voted to exit the EU? You have done your best to undermine what the majority want by posting every negative story you can muster. In the end, Theresa May will prove you to be wrong. She is more of a 'man' than so many of her wimpy detractors.

Certainly. Especially more so than the Brexiters in the cabinet, which is even more impressive when you consider for their bluster they've been lacking in any ideas for the situation they campaigned for. I this holds she'll have done well. I mean that.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Hopefully the EU will reject this shabby compromise nonsense and then there'll be no time left for yet another capitulation to the remainers and we ACTUALLY leave on WTO rules.

The EU/UK understands this is the starting position and I think the Government suspects this will be knocked back at first.

[Mr K]

Looks like the broad terms of a deal with the EU has already been done quietely behind the scenes. Hence May visiting Merkel this week.

So, we'll be in the EU in all but name, but with no say or voting rights on anything. Not great, but better than the nightmare scenario. Hope Farage/Boris etc. are pround of what they have acheived (looks like Boris prefers his ministerial car to principals, of which he has none - he went awol during the Heathrow vote aswell... )

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Certainly. Especially more so than the Brexiters in the cabinet, which is even more impressive when you consider for their bluster they've been lacking in any ideas for the situation they campaigned for. I this holds she'll have done well. I mean that.

Spot on. The Brexiters snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by not coming up with anything to replace a super-close relationship with the EU. They only had one job to do and two years in which to do it!

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

em she hasn't even started trying to get a deal with EU it her own party she trying to do a deal at moment that what todays about you forgetting the FACTS again OB

Exactly. David Davis has spent just four hours this year negotiating with Michael Barnier. Now that we've got a proposal, we've actually got something we can discuss with them.

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Looks like the broad terms of a deal with the EU has already been done quietely behind the scenes. Hence May visiting Merkel this week.

Looks like the men have been blustering and comparing sizes of their trade deals with Narnia and Atlantis whilst the two women have got on and sorted it out over a couple of glasses of Prosecco.

Originally Posted by Damien

It looks like we'll be in some form of hybrid customs union.



You understand the EU isn't likely be using our posts on here as a barometer for UK public opinion right?



Certainly. Especially more so than the Brexiters in the cabinet, which is even more impressive when you consider for their bluster they've been lacking in any ideas for the situation they campaigned for. I this holds she'll have done well. I mean that.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------



The EU/UK understands this is the starting position and I think the Government suspects this will be knocked back at first.

Exactly!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

If 17.4 Million people do not get the Brexit they voted for, do you honestly think we are just going to sit there and smile and say, ok then just ignore then what I voted for, betray me and what we voted for, there will be a revolt and riots will quite possibly happen and I will be there because what I voted for, that WON, in a Democracy is being denied and that is NOT acceptable!!!

What do you think of what you've read so far on Friday's White Paper, Mick?

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Exactly!

I'll bet our cabinet dip in and out occasionally to get a few ideas

[denphone]

Originally Posted by daveeb

I'll bet our cabinet dip in and out occasionally to get a few ideas

You can leave me out of it as one does not have the nous and intellect like others on here..

[Sephiroth]

Whilst I am not Mick, the important thing for me is separation from the ECJ and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Along with that come the trade deals we might make with other countries or trading groups.

I can give way on technical matters regarding EU trade such as alignment of standards thus having to take account of the ECJ or ignore rulings on our alignment and thus on trade at our peril.

Quite how the Irish border question will pan out is beyond my prediction.

One senses that May cleared this with Merkel and thus the Brussels turds will get new instructions - as in not quite there but shows promise.

OB might well have been right (as we in Wokingham can often be).

I reserve my judgement for now.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I reserve my judgement for now.

I'm sure TM will be mightily releived about that Mick !