Brexit (Old)

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Angua

British Businesses seem very unprepared for a no deal Brexit. No doubt people will whinge about scare mongering, but many SMEs have little capacity to plan for Brexit and government seem to have their heads in the sand over this.

I was asking about contingencies in the company I work in at the country and local level. Apparently our country lead is spending a lot of time talking to politicians about this!

We have already closed one manufacturing plant and there are rumours that some manufacturing at another plant will be moved to China. This is based on it being expensive to make things in the UK but easy to do business internationally. If it becomes harder to do business internationally, then we may well move things to somewhere were it's cheaper to make things.

At a local level, we have many EU employees based in the UK and the focus is very much on staff retention - we don't want talented staff to leave the company and about 20% of the workforce are non-UK EU citizens. Our company is offering to support and indeed pay for any residency applications for EU staff. Some staff have stated they want to leave the UK and we have offered remote working from their destination countries as an option again to retain talent.

I am sure the question will come up - why can't we employ UK staff and the simple answer is twofold - we want the best people in their roles and the need for language skills

All of our distribution is from an EU country but we do already have experience of shipping to non-EU countries of all flavours so this is more of a training and staffing issue for our UK customer service team. We will almost certainly need to take on more staff however.

We have already passed on costs to our customers due to the drop in GBP and have adopted a flexible pricing strategy rather than setting one price in January to allow for currency volatility as we don't report in GBP.

There's a lot going on but luckily I work in a company big enough to absorb the difficulties

Seems to me that no one knows what the hell is going on and I'm including all the political parties,the media,the public,business and the EU..It's a confusing mess.

[Bircho]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It won't be the first time that governments have introduced laws that don't give businesses much time to comply.

Not satisfactory, but they'll cope.

Go on then. Other than changes in rates of tax, name one.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I was asking about contingencies in the company I work in at the country and local level. Apparently our country lead is spending a lot of time talking to politicians about this!

We have already closed one manufacturing plant and there are rumours that some manufacturing at another plant will be moved to China. This is based on it being expensive to make things in the UK but easy to do business internationally. If it becomes harder to do business internationally, then we may well move things to somewhere were it's cheaper to make things.

At a local level, we have many EU employees based in the UK and the focus is very much on staff retention - we don't want talented staff to leave the company and about 20% of the workforce are non-UK EU citizens. Our company is offering to support and indeed pay for any residency applications for EU staff. Some staff have stated they want to leave the UK and we have offered remote working from their destination countries as an option again to retain talent.

I am sure the question will come up - why can't we employ UK staff and the simple answer is twofold - we want the best people in their roles and the need for language skills

All of our distribution is from an EU country but we do already have experience of shipping to non-EU countries of all flavours so this is more of a training and staffing issue for our UK customer service team. We will almost certainly need to take on more staff however.

We have already passed on costs to our customers due to the drop in GBP and have adopted a flexible pricing strategy rather than setting one price in January to allow for currency volatility as we don't report in GBP.

There's a lot going on but luckily I work in a company big enough to absorb the difficulties

As far as recruitment and retention of non-UK staff is concerned, surely that is dependent on our immigration policy. As long as that is carefully constructed with the emphasis on skills and labour shortage areas, Brexit doesn't actually need to be a problem.

Abandonment of free movement will just mean that we don't give rights to people who want to live in this country if they don't have the qualities that we need.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Seems to me that no one knows what the hell is going on and I'm including all the political parties,the media,the public,business and the EU..It's a confusing mess.

That's because it's a negotiation, Maggie. Each side is trying to unnerve the other before finally agreeing on a solution.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

As far as recruitment and retention of non-UK staff is concerned, surely that is dependent on our immigration policy. As long as that is carefully constructed with the emphasis on skills and labour shortage areas, Brexit doesn't actually need to be a problem.

Abandonment of free movement will just mean that we don't give rights to people who want to live in this country if they don't have the qualities that we need.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------



That's because it's a negotiation, Maggie. Each side is trying to unnerve the other before finally agreeing on a solution.

No I think they genuinely don't know what they are doing..After all it's a first.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

As far as recruitment and retention of non-UK staff is concerned, surely that is dependent on our immigration policy. As long as that is carefully constructed with the emphasis on skills and labour shortage areas, Brexit doesn't actually need to be a problem.

Abandonment of free movement will just mean that we don't give rights to people who want to live in this country if they don't have the qualities that we need.[COLOR="Silver"]

Absolutely, but at present, no one knows what the situation will be. Most importantly, the current employees don't know. The fear from a company level is that these employees may choose to move out of the UK, leaving the company before the final status is known. We have lost a few staff already due to this. These tend to be customer service staff who are young and mobile. These staff were almost all recruited in the UK as this is much easier than recruiting abroad

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Strange comment. I was just correcting a previous post. I didn't say that I believed Rees-Mogg's prediction, or any other prediction

OB, you are constantly saying that Brexit will be fine, we will prosper, etc. with nothing tangible to underwrite the claim. Yet when someone says that we will suffer under the current plans, you say "I think these forecasters are simply making it up as they go along."

You can't have it both ways

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You need to allow linguistic latitude and be less up-tight. Pierre's post was full of true information and all you're worried about is "hards of thinking". Rather proves the point.

Brexit is about sovereignty and getting away from schemes dreamt up by the Commission that reduce our sovereignty. Any dispute about that invites a "hard of thinking" suggestion. You can always refute that with counter-argument.

If someone says I am hard of thinking, I'll reply that they are talking tripe. If that's the level you want the debate to descend to then you need to reassess your approach.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Absolutely, but at present, no one knows what the situation will be. Most importantly, the current employees don't know. The fear from a company level is that these employees may choose to move out of the UK, leaving the company before the final status is known. We have lost a few staff already due to this. These tend to be customer service staff who are young and mobile. These staff were almost all recruited in the UK as this is much easier than recruiting abroad

Yes, but European workers have already received an assurance about that. They can continue to live and work in the UK.

---------- Post added at 16:33 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

No I think they genuinely don't know what they are doing..After all it's a first.

I appreciate this is the appearance of the situation. However, TM knows what she wants to achieve, but it is the Parliamentary arithmetic that is hampering her every turn. That is the problem.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Minority and coalition governments create chaos because just a very small number of MPs can create such mayhem that it is difficult to get through any controversial decision. This is a case in point.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Abandonment of free movement will just mean that we don't give rights to people who want to live in this country if they don't have the qualities that we need

Which of course is totally possible as a member of the EU:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36449974

As things stand, EU citizens who come to the UK to find work cannot claim jobseeker's allowance during their first three months in the country.

After that they can claim for a total of 91 days, which can be split across several periods of jobseeking. They can continue claiming beyond that period if they can demonstrate that they are actively looking for a job and are likely to get it.

After a total of six months they can be removed if they still have not found a job, and have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system.

These rules have been in place since early 2014, and are in line with existing EU legislation.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

OB, you are constantly saying that Brexit will be fine, we will prosper, etc. with nothing tangible to underwrite the claim. Yet when someone says that we will suffer under the current plans, you say "I think these forecasters are simply making it up as they go along."

You can't have it both ways.

I am not trying to have it both ways. I am suggesting that nobody can give detailed figures to show the 'disadvantages' of Brexit. There are too many imponderables.

However, the issue is not how much worse off we will be, but how much better off. The opportunities are amazing, but just remember one thing. Similar levels of trade with the EU + new opportunities arising from a new, outwood looking UK = more trade (and therefore income) for the UK. It really is that simple. The detail is for the politicians to sort out, but many of the problems that we hear about are just being bumped up for effect.

Not long now, and you will see what I mean.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, but European workers have already received an assurance about that. They can continue to live and work in the UK.[COLOR="Silver"]

That's true, however the feeling at the coal face doesn't have much confidence in those assurances. I had lunch today with some French and German colleagues who work in the UK and they are not reassured to be honest. Whether those fears are justified or not is by the by - they want something in writing rather than promises. They feel they are being held hostage to Brexit negotiations.

They also commented on how the atmosphere and attitudes have changed towards them since the vote. Being asked when they are going home by other parents at the school gates in front of their kids was not a nice feeling...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Which of course is totally possible as a member of the EU:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36449974

That's about job seekers' allowance and being sent home if you have not found a job by the time limit.

However, under Brexit, surely the point is that you would not be able to just come over and find a job and then you'd be all right. Under Brexit, you would have to apply for a visa and you would only be allowed to enter the country if you had the skills and qualities required. I would imagine that you would also need a firm offer of a job.

That is a big difference, and would help to ensure better opportunities for UK workers, who complain that Europeans are taking their jobs.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's about job seekers' allowance and being sent home if you have not found a job by the time limit.

However, under Brexit, surely the point is that you would not be able to just come over and find a job and then you'd be all right. Under Brexit, you would have to apply for a visa and you would only be allowed to enter the country if you had the skills and qualities required. I would imagine that you would also need a firm offer of a job.

That is a big difference, and would help to ensure better opportunities for UK workers, who complain that Europeans are taking their jobs.

And, I assume, the same rules would apply to Brits who want to live in any of the EU countries.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

That's true, however the feeling at the coal face doesn't have much confidence in those assurances. I had lunch today with some French and German colleagues who work in the UK and they are not reassured to be honest. Whether those fears are justified or not is by the by - they want something in writing rather than promises. They feel they are being held hostage to Brexit negotiations.

They also commented on how the atmosphere and attitudes have changed towards them since the vote. Being asked when they are going home by other parents at the school gates in front of their kids was not a nice feeling...

Well, I don't know what you expect the government to do, given that these assurances have actually been given and well publicised. Maybe the companies employing these individuals could do more to publicise what the government has said, in an effort to make them feel more secure.

I have nothing but contempt for those individuals being nasty to foreign workers, but the government can't do very much about them that they haven't already done.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

And, I assume, the same rules would apply to Brits who want to live in any of the EU countries.

Presumably, and I see nothing wrong with that.

My parents emigrated to Australia in the 1970s, but my father had to demonstrate first that he had the skills that they needed.

Perfectly reasonable in my book.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Seems to me that no one knows what the hell is going on and I'm including all the political parties,the media,the public,business and the EU..It's a confusing mess.

To be fair, the likes of Denmark have been planning for a no deal Brexit, as they will be particularly hard hit as the UK is one of the main markets for their bacon.