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Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
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Old 20-04-2019, 19:34   #631
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
With Virgin moving so many channels to MPEG4, on top of the already existing free bandwidth available, I decided to have a look where the free space is being cleared and itís almost everything up to 427 Mhz. This is either side of the existing broadband block.
Broadband is their flagship product. I suspect most of the benefits of the switch to MPEG4 (i.e. bandwidth) will go towards maintaining its advantage rather than more TV services.
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Old 20-04-2019, 19:45   #632
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

There's plenty of bandwidth for both, if required. The Vxx VOD frequencies have almost nothing on them broadcasting right now - obviously the V6 is changing the game in that respect.
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Old Yesterday, 00:13   #633
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
With Virgin moving so many channels to MPEG4, on top of the already existing free bandwidth available, I decided to have a look where the free space is being cleared and it’s almost everything up to 427 Mhz. This is either side of the existing broadband block.

You decided to look where? Every headend has a different frequency plan for transport streams. What you see on an individual network almost certainly won't be the same in other regions.

---------- Post added at 00:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
There's plenty of bandwidth for both, if required. The Vxx VOD frequencies have almost nothing on them broadcasting right now - obviously the V6 is changing the game in that respect.

What data are you using to determine what is being broadcast on the VOD transport streams? Any scan will only show usage at a given point in time for a given location. Remember that VOD distribution is more similar to DOCSIS than it is to normal broadcast transport stream distribution. What you can see is usage in your local neighbourhood (or the neighbourhood local to wherever the data is scanned). It may not accurately show usage trends on the local network or on Virgin nationally.
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Old Yesterday, 00:30   #634
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by epsilon View Post
You decided to look where? Every headend has a different frequency plan for transport streams. What you see on an individual network almost certainly won't be the same in other regions.
I’ve a DVB-C tuner.

Yes, each area has a different plan which is why I didn’t claim it was representative of the entire network. However space either side of the existing broadband frequencies is far more likely to be used for broadband than DVB-C TV services. Of course, you know this already.

I’ve no reason to believe my area to be special in any way so I’d guess the same principle is happening elsewhere.

Quote:
What data are you using to determine what is being broadcast on the VOD transport streams? Any scan will only show usage at a given point in time for a given location. Remember that VOD distribution is more similar to DOCSIS than it is to normal broadcast transport stream distribution. What you can see is usage in your local neighbourhood (or the neighbourhood local to wherever the data is scanned). It may not accurately show usage trends on the local network or on Virgin nationally.
Obviously it relies upon the data at a given point but from my own observations and the graphs on DBR show a downward trend with far more red than live active streams at any given point.

Now as you say it’s localised. So it could be the consequence of node splitting or the removal of old STBs which didn’t have iPlayer delivered over the internet. I’m not sure which catch up apps use which delivery method - I suppose I could test tomorrow by switching off my hub when I press play.

EDIT: If anyone got extremely bored and wanted to develop the frequency plan for their area it can be done, albeit in a time consuming way, with the technical menu of the V6. Channels will be grouped the same as on DBR, except regional variations, and it’ll report the frequency. The status page of your Superhub 3 will also tell you 24 of the broadband frequencies in use. Any “gaps” will be the cleared space or VOD.

If it’s a former Telewest area I suspect C001 on DBR is 115Mhz and rising at 8Mhz intervals until C080 at 747Mhz. So it does show where the gaps are too. I’d be interested to know what happens in 860Mhz areas as it was often proposed 860Mhz to 1Ghz (when the network was upgraded) would be better for DOCSIS 3.1 as it requires new kit anyway. The clearance makes more sense at the top than the bottom in these areas. That’s not to say they can’t swap it round later anyway.

Last edited by jfman; Yesterday at 01:05.
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Old Yesterday, 10:11   #635
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Just checked and ITV content is also streamed over the internet to the V6. I’ve no idea the numbers but I’d guess both providers have the most hits in terms of catch up viewing. The combination of this and BBC would release some pressure on the capacity of the on demand frequencies.
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Old Yesterday, 17:07   #636
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I’ve a DVB-C tuner.

Yes, each area has a different plan which is why I didn’t claim it was representative of the entire network. However space either side of the existing broadband frequencies is far more likely to be used for broadband than DVB-C TV services. Of course, you know this already.
Is the DVB-C tuner in a TV or a computer?

If you pay attention to the channel allocations on DBR you will see that the band of cleared frequencies, some of which are used for extra DOCSIS capacity (C037-C045) are not adjacent to the existing DOCSIS range (within the C004-C028 range). DBR uses Manchester data, so is a former Cable & Wireless network. I believe similar patterns exist across all former Cable and Wireless regions. As far as I know, some former Telewest regions use entirely different frequency ranges for DOCSIS, although most of the former Telewest regions do use a similar range for DOCSIS with the cleared capacity being adjacent to this range. There is no advantage to having such a wide band of adjacent frequencies. It is far too wide a range for all the channels to be bonded.


Quote:
I’ve no reason to believe my area to be special in any way so I’d guess the same principle is happening elsewhere.
Fair enough for a guess but that isn't what is happening. A quick check of DBR channels would have proved that.

Quote:
Obviously it relies upon the data at a given point but from my own observations and the graphs on DBR show a downward trend with far more red than live active streams at any given point.
I would expect to see a lot of red. The Vxxx names are assigned randomly. The clear names will have been in use at the time of the most recent scan. The red names will have been in use on previous scans. Often fairly recent scans. The amount of red would only show a trend if the Vxxx names were static but they aren't.

Quote:
EDIT: If anyone got extremely bored and wanted to develop the frequency plan for their area it can be done, albeit in a time consuming way, with the technical menu of the V6. Channels will be grouped the same as on DBR, except regional variations, and it’ll report the frequency. The status page of your Superhub 3 will also tell you 24 of the broadband frequencies in use. Any “gaps” will be the cleared space or VOD.

If it’s a former Telewest area I suspect C001 on DBR is 115Mhz and rising at 8Mhz intervals until C080 at 747Mhz. So it does show where the gaps are too. I’d be interested to know what happens in 860Mhz areas as it was often proposed 860Mhz to 1Ghz (when the network was upgraded) would be better for DOCSIS 3.1 as it requires new kit anyway. The clearance makes more sense at the top than the bottom in these areas. That’s not to say they can’t swap it round later anyway.
That would be a very time consuming exercise. I've heard of Easter egg hunts but an Easter wild goose chase is a new one.

I believe that C001 is used for the first available channel above the FM band plus or minus the frequency offset used by Virgin in the local region. So your starting point is correct. The upper frequency differs between regions, with some going as high as 843Mhz. Maybe you should take a cautious approach and set the upper limit at 860MHz. That's only 94 frequencies for your Easter goose chasers to track.

Getting back on track, my point was that the trend you thought you saw might not be correct. The current MPEG4 conversions of SD channels makes sense as it is a more efficient use of the spectrum, maybe that's all it is.

Now the reason I asked if your DVB-C tuner is in a computer. If it is, you can use it to extract the frequency table from the NIT for multiple Virgin networks. It would probably only take a minute to complete the scan. But, if you prefer the labourious Easter goose chase, go for it!


So, coming soon, more efficient usage of the spectrum.

Last edited by epsilon; Yesterday at 17:21.
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Old Yesterday, 18:00   #637
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Total Channels has gone up by 10 since last Monday (April 15th).
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Old Yesterday, 18:32   #638
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Done The broadband but not sure about the tv side.

Code:
 Frequencies in Uddingston
[cleared space or VOD Between 115-138Mhz]
139000000 [Broadband]
147000000 [Broadband]
155000000 [Broadband]
163000000 [Broadband]
171000000 [Broadband]
179000000 [Broadband]
195000000 [Broadband]
211000000 [Broadband]
219000000 [Broadband]
227000000 [Broadband]
235000000 [Broadband]
243000000 [Broadband]
251000000 [Broadband]
259000000 [Broadband]
267000000 [Broadband]
275000000 [Broadband]
283000000 [Broadband]
291000000 [Broadband]
299000000 [Broadband]
307000000 [Broadband]
315000000 [Broadband]
323000000 [Broadband] 
[cleared space or VOD Between 324-362Mhz]
363000000 [Broadband]
371000000 [Broadband]
379000000 [Broadband]
387000000 [Broadband]
395000000 [Broadband]
403000000 [Broadband]
411000000 [Broadband] 
[cleared space or VOD Between 412-522Mhz]
523000000 [V6]
[cleared space or VOD Between 524-570Mhz]
571000000 [V6]
579000000 [V6]
[cleared space or VOD Between 580-658Mhz]
659000000 [V6]

Last edited by Martin_D; Yesterday at 18:36.
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Old Yesterday, 20:37   #639
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by epsilon View Post
Is the DVB-C tuner in a TV or a computer?

If you pay attention to the channel allocations on DBR you will see that the band of cleared frequencies, some of which are used for extra DOCSIS capacity (C037-C045) are not adjacent to the existing DOCSIS range (within the C004-C028 range). DBR uses Manchester data, so is a former Cable & Wireless network. I believe similar patterns exist across all former Cable and Wireless regions. As far as I know, some former Telewest regions use entirely different frequency ranges for DOCSIS, although most of the former Telewest regions do use a similar range for DOCSIS with the cleared capacity being adjacent to this range. There is no advantage to having such a wide band of adjacent frequencies. It is far too wide a range for all the channels to be bonded.

Fair enough for a guess but that isn't what is happening. A quick check of DBR channels would have proved that.

I would expect to see a lot of red. The Vxxx names are assigned randomly. The clear names will have been in use at the time of the most recent scan. The red names will have been in use on previous scans. Often fairly recent scans. The amount of red would only show a trend if the Vxxx names were static but they aren't.

That would be a very time consuming exercise. I've heard of Easter egg hunts but an Easter wild goose chase is a new one.

I believe that C001 is used for the first available channel above the FM band plus or minus the frequency offset used by Virgin in the local region. So your starting point is correct. The upper frequency differs between regions, with some going as high as 843Mhz. Maybe you should take a cautious approach and set the upper limit at 860MHz. That's only 94 frequencies for your Easter goose chasers to track.

Getting back on track, my point was that the trend you thought you saw might not be correct. The current MPEG4 conversions of SD channels makes sense as it is a more efficient use of the spectrum, maybe that's all it is.

Now the reason I asked if your DVB-C tuner is in a computer. If it is, you can use it to extract the frequency table from the NIT for multiple Virgin networks. It would probably only take a minute to complete the scan. But, if you prefer the labourious Easter goose chase, go for it!


So, coming soon, more efficient usage of the spectrum.
I don’t really know why you chose your 28th post on this forum to prove me fundamentally correct, but I should thank you I suppose. There was no need to go into extensive detail on it.

As for efficiency the only reason for doing this is to free up capacity. What for? Well there’s capacity for hundreds of channels that don’t exist. Or faster broadband. Again, you know this, so I fail to comprehend what’s so disagreeable of either of my posts it warrant your 27th and 28th intervention in fifteen years. You average less than two posts a year yet I get two in one 24 hour period. I’m honoured.

FYI my scan took about three minutes, but that’ll be a hardware issue.

Last edited by jfman; Yesterday at 20:42.
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Old Yesterday, 20:55   #640
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Frequencies in Uddingston
[cleared space or VOD Between 115-138Mhz]
139000000 [Broadband]
147000000 [Broadband]
155000000 [Broadband]
163000000 [Broadband]
171000000 [Broadband]
179000000 [Broadband]
195000000 [Broadband]
211000000 [Broadband]
219000000 [Broadband]
227000000 [Broadband]
235000000 [Broadband]
243000000 [Broadband]
251000000 [Broadband]
259000000 [Broadband]
267000000 [Broadband]
275000000 [Broadband]
283000000 [Broadband]
291000000 [Broadband]
299000000 [Broadband]
307000000 [Broadband]
315000000 [Broadband]
323000000 [Broadband]

[cleared space or VOD Between 324-362Mhz]
363000000 [Broadband]
371000000 [Broadband]
379000000 [Broadband]
387000000 [Broadband]
395000000 [Broadband]
403000000 [Broadband]
411000000 [Broadband]

[cleared space or VOD Between 412-522Mhz]
523000000 [V6]
555000000 [V6]
[cleared space or VOD Between 556-570Mhz]
571000000 [V6]
579000000 [V6]

[cleared space or VOD Between 580-658Mhz]
659000000 [V6]

Feed found at 555Mhz for V6

Last edited by Martin_D; Yesterday at 21:00.
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Old Yesterday, 21:22   #641
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Iíve a DVB-C tuner.

Yes, each area has a different plan which is why I didnít claim it was representative of the entire network. However space either side of the existing broadband frequencies is far more likely to be used for broadband than DVB-C TV services. Of course, you know this already.

Iíve no reason to believe my area to be special in any way so Iíd guess the same principle is happening elsewhere.



Obviously it relies upon the data at a given point but from my own observations and the graphs on DBR show a downward trend with far more red than live active streams at any given point.

Now as you say itís localised. So it could be the consequence of node splitting or the removal of old STBs which didnít have iPlayer delivered over the internet. Iím not sure which catch up apps use which delivery method - I suppose I could test tomorrow by switching off my hub when I press play.

EDIT: If anyone got extremely bored and wanted to develop the frequency plan for their area it can be done, albeit in a time consuming way, with the technical menu of the V6. Channels will be grouped the same as on DBR, except regional variations, and itíll report the frequency. The status page of your Superhub 3 will also tell you 24 of the broadband frequencies in use. Any ďgapsĒ will be the cleared space or VOD.

If itís a former Telewest area I suspect C001 on DBR is 115Mhz and rising at 8Mhz intervals until C080 at 747Mhz. So it does show where the gaps are too. Iíd be interested to know what happens in 860Mhz areas as it was often proposed 860Mhz to 1Ghz (when the network was upgraded) would be better for DOCSIS 3.1 as it requires new kit anyway. The clearance makes more sense at the top than the bottom in these areas. Thatís not to say they canít swap it round later anyway.



It would be really good, jfman, if you posted this stuff on the MPEG4 thread, because all this technical stuff is just either jibberish or completely irrelevant for most readers, and it does not affect the user experience.

Not a criticism at all, but just a friendly pointer on how these posts might be better categorised.
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Old Yesterday, 22:18   #642
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
[/B]

It would be really good, jfman, if you posted this stuff on the MPEG4 thread, because all this technical stuff is just either jibberish or completely irrelevant for most readers, and it does not affect the user experience.

Not a criticism at all, but just a friendly pointer on how these posts might be better categorised.
It’s generally accepted that the “coming soon” thread isn’t actually a coming soon thread. Minor technical changes, wishlists, and rumour are all welcome.

I’ve fought that fight and lost before.

I’m also not sure lecturing me on categorising things better considering you have had threads closed for being fundamentally the same that linear TV is dying off. You should welcome my input into this thread that Virgin are making more space for broadband!

Last edited by jfman; Yesterday at 22:22.
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Old Today, 00:13   #643
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s generally accepted that the “coming soon” thread isn’t actually a coming soon thread. Minor technical changes, wishlists, and rumour are all welcome.

I’ve fought that fight and lost before.

I’m also not sure lecturing me on categorising things better considering you have had threads closed for being fundamentally the same that linear TV is dying off. You should welcome my input into this thread that Virgin are making more space for broadband!
No need to be hostile, jfman. You must understand that most people look at the 'coming soon' thread for changes that may be coming to Virgin Media subscribers.

There is a seperate thread dealing with the technical stuff that you are into, I am just suggesting that you stay on topic. That is all.

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