Pronouns

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But putting this stuff into the heads of kids is plain wrong

Any evidence to back up the idea that teaching kids about pronouns is “wrong”?

And I’m sorry, “burden”? The only burden my son has is whether or not he’s going to get FIFA 23 from me for Christmas.

He understands the use of pronouns. It has not negatively impacted his life one bit.

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

Originally Posted by peanut

That is totally fine with me. It would cost nothing to 'those' to accept my point of view either.

Use of pronouns wouldn’t affect your life one bit. Lack of use could affect their lives.

It costs nothing to be kind.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Any evidence to back up the idea that teaching kids about pronouns is “wrong”?

And I’m sorry, “burden”? The only burden my son has is whether or not he’s going to get FIFA 23 from me for Christmas.

He understands the use of pronouns. It has not negatively impacted his life one bit.

Pronouns in the grammatical sense, yes. And that includes he/she (singular), they (plural).

The other stuff about social pronouns should be left to much later in the education process.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

Use of pronouns wouldn’t affect your life one bit. Lack of use could affect their lives.

It costs nothing to be kind.

Not if you're upfront about it and there's no malice in your reasons why. And I'm sure as always I would be kind about it.

[Sephiroth]

Julian wrote (QUOTE didn't work):

Maybe there wouldn't be so much of an issue if existing pronouns weren't being hijacked?

Maybe new pronouns could have been invented?

I can just imagine how this might be taught.

"Now children, we have he/she/it in the singular. We have they/them in plural. That's how it's been since time began. Now, to accommodate modern mental conflicts as to gender in some cases and perverts in other cases, new pronouns have been invented.

But first, the difference between sex and gender ....."

A total can of worms to confuse children. "Now children, if you don't feel that your gender is the same as your sex, put up your hand".

Jeez.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Pronouns in the grammatical sense, yes. And that includes he/she (singular), they (plural).

The other stuff about social pronouns should be left to much later in the education process.

So you’ve presented your opinion, that’s cool. But it’s not evidence.

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 ----------

Originally Posted by peanut

Not if you're upfront about it and there's no malice in your reasons why. And I'm sure as always I would be kind about it.

And speaking as someone who feels they have a different gender you’re sure you wouldn’t be upset by someone refusing to acknowledge your chosen pronoun?

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Julian wrote (QUOTE didn't work):



I can just imagine how this might be taught.

"Now children, we have he/she/it in the singular. We have they/them in plural. That's how it's been since time began. Now, to accommodate modern mental conflicts as to gender in some cases and perverts in other cases, new pronouns have been invented.

But first, the difference between sex and gender ....."

A total can of worms to confuse children. "Now children, if you don't feel that your gender is the same as your sex, put up your hand".

Jeez.

Well thank the Lord it wouldn’t be taught that way.

If I told you a story about my neighbour but didn’t tell you the sex/gender which pronoun would you use for this person?

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

And speaking as someone who feels they have a different gender you’re sure you wouldn’t be upset by someone refusing to acknowledge your chosen pronoun?

To be honest I wouldn't have a clue. But what I do know is that I'll be truthful but not hurtful. If it comes down to it that the person is still upset then they have to learn that real life doesn't revolve around them. And if that was the case then I refer back to my 'it's their problem, and not mine' comment.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by peanut

To be honest I wouldn't have a clue. But what I do know is that I'll be truthful but not hurtful. If it comes down to it that the person is still upset then they have to learn that real life doesn't revolve around them. And if that was the case then I refer back to my 'it's their problem, and not mine' comment.

So if I’ve got this right, a slight change to a word you may use won’t hurt or harm your life in any way but deliberately refusing to use it could cause hurt to someone, and you’d still refuse to make that change.

Have I understood that correctly?

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

So if I’ve got this right, a slight change to a word you may use won’t hurt or harm your life in any way but deliberately refusing to use it could cause hurt to someone, and you’d still refuse to make that change.

Have I understood that correctly?

Yes, unless you want me to lie to the person just to please them and to not hurt their feelings. Which is the reason why I choose not to.

It seems you don't accept anything other than right or wrong, there's nothing in between. Even if those that don't agree with but would be accommodating by accepting that they can call themselves whatever they want, but just don't expect me to follow just ain't good enough for you.

[Russ]

I’m sorry where are you lying to them?

All I’m accepting is it’s pretty unkind to simply refuse to consider a tiny change when doing so doesn’t affect your life one bit.

If it cost you money or weakens your rights in society then yeah I could understand that.

But we both know it’s nothing like that.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

I’m sorry where are you lying to them?

All I’m accepting is it’s pretty unkind to simply refuse to consider a tiny change when doing so doesn’t affect your life one bit.

If it cost you money or weakens your rights in society then yeah I could understand that.

But we both know it’s nothing like that.

Are you saying I should comply against my beliefs or wishes just to please a group that I don't agree with? And for that I'm being 'unkind'?

[Russ]

You still haven’t said how you’d be lying to someone

Answer me this:

Would using a different pronoun for someone harm or hurt your life in any way?

Yes or no.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

You still haven’t said how you’d be lying to someone

Answer me this:

Would using a different pronoun for someone harm or hurt your life in any way?

Yes or no.

Would you say there is no God? Would that hurt your life or would you be truthful?

Tolerance work both ways, seems a bit lacking on your side.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

All I’m accepting is it’s pretty unkind to simply refuse to consider a tiny change when doing so doesn’t affect your life one bit.

It effects language and ultimately society.

Take this nonsense for example

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-author.html

And then this piece in the express

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-...-latest-photos

It is asking you suspend what you are seeing with your own eyes. That is a MAN in a dress nothing more nothing less. You know it is, I know it is, he knows it is. Not a she.

Once you can make people say the opposite of what they see, I'll probably get rediculed for this........but hasn't anybody read the end of 1984?

Language is important, so is the right to say what is implicitly true, even if it upsets some people.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by peanut

Would you say there is no God? Would that hurt your life or would you be truthful?

I'd be truthful - there is a God. And I've shown a lot of restraint against militant atheists on CF for many, many years.

Originally Posted by peanut

Tolerance work both ways, seems a bit lacking on your side.

I'm not the one refusing to agree to a simple request that harms nobody.

And don't worry about answering my questions, you've demonstrated that you refuse.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'd be truthful - there is a God. And I've shown a lot of restraint against militant atheists on CF for many, many years.



I'm not the one refusing to agree to a simple request that harms nobody.

And don't worry about answering my questions, you've demonstrated that you refuse.

But if a person wants you to say there is no God, would you comply to please them? Not going to hurt you is it?