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Old 30-12-2021, 19:52   #1141
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
It about time we got tough.


Ban anyone who refuses the vaccine or a mask from entering any business (unless they have a doctor certify this).


The covid passport should be introduced, and those that don't show a valid QR code refused entry.


There is no discrimination as you have the option to get the vaccine, you discriminate yourself by refusing.
That's too much.

We're actually pretty good at getting the vaccine in this country and haven't seen nearly the level of resistance some places in Europe (or America) has to either vaccines or masks.

I think there are many reasons for that such as the trust people have in the NHS and broadcast news being sane but I think another big reason is the public has a pretty good relationship with the state. The Government makes an argument we should do something, we accept that argument and do it and in return we expect the Government to cut us a little slack as well. A mutual understanding that we'll listen to authority and therefore authority will respect our liberty. It works well.

Compare that to France where people will openly reject the state, thumbing their nose at it however reasonable their request, and so the state responds with force. They don't get the vaccine, so they introduce vaccine passports and everyone has to get it. They had to actively enforce the lockdown with literal paper passes to go out and the police checking their papers.
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Old 30-12-2021, 21:29   #1142
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
Ban anyone who refuses the vaccine or a mask from entering any business (unless they have a doctor certify this).
How can we identify these people? Should we make them wear a gold star on their clothing? Perhaps tattoo a number on their wrist?

Let me know.

Quote:
The covid passport should be introduced, and those that don't show a valid QR code refused entry.
Based on the irrefutable fact that vaccine passports have done nothing to reduce anything.

Quote:
There is no discrimination as you have the option to get the vaccine
But not the option to not have it, which makes it not an option, so you don’t have the option.

So given that to have an option, there needs to be an option, what’s the option?.
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Old 30-12-2021, 21:54   #1143
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Re: Coronavirus

Well centuries of licking boot appears to have served serfdom in the Kingdom well for the “papers please” society you warned us of.

The keyboard revolution hasn’t come to fruition. Unless Piers Corbyn is it.

That said with vaccine efficacy (against infection, of course) so close to zero it’s hard to make a compelling case vaccine passports do anything to reduce transmission.

The one use would be - in a strategy of promoting mass infection (and if the Government can do it to kids, they can definitely do it to you) is to herd the sheep least likely to land in intensive care into superspreading events to increase their hypothetical immunity against future variants. If you squint at it carefully enough, you could call it “just shield the vulnerable”.

Last edited by jfman; 30-12-2021 at 21:57.
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:08   #1144
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
So what alerted them in the end?

The Gov has to take a lot of blame for this. To this day, gov.uk says
"The main symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) are:
  • a high temperature
  • a new, continuous cough
  • a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste"

That's at least 18 months out of date
Nothing , took test convinced it was not COVID . Just so that they could say so must add all had had jabs + booster
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:09   #1145
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
That said with vaccine efficacy (against infection, of course) so close to zero it’s hard to make a compelling case vaccine passports do anything to reduce transmission.
I like the idea in principle (as a short term measure, to allow places like theatres, nightclubs etc to open without needing social distancing) but this fact, in the current situation, makes them somewhat pointless. If you're triple jabbed and can still get Omicron variant even with mild symptoms and infect others, the fact you're jabbed does nothing to say you do not have the virus (whereas a negative LFT is more likely to) and whilst yes it does reduce the effects of the virus and reduce the possibility of transmission it really isn't reliable enough to mean anything but a publicity exercise.


It's like masks all over again, ok so yes even a paper or cloth mask probably has an effect, but not a very good one - and yes, surgical masks like N95s or FFP2s do have more effectiveness, but again people forget why this is a mitigation (i'm sure you personally don't) - it's to protect others from you and not the other way round. A recent negative PCR or (done properly) LFT is more sensible as this shows someone doesn't have the virus in which case the mask is doing absolutely diddly in terms of stopping the virus, because there is no virus from that person to stop. Like all the constant testing (which I do concede is the most useful thing at the moment) it's basically making everyone feel like they must have the virus even if they don't have the virus and/or aren't ill, which is a mentality I don't really like (though absolutely if you're showing signs of infection you probably need to get a test).



Both of them are visual signs of actually looking like you're doing something instead of actual measures which stand much chance of stopping the virus.


The good news is, that actually, failing to stop the virus (which still has Canute-esque attributes fundamentally) is starting to become a bit less of a big deal. Most of the cases I bet which are being picked up now are because people with no symptoms, or symptoms which would ordinarily be dismissed as a cold in other years, and aren't progressing further, are showing this, as well as people wanting to test to ensure they don't have the virus before visiting people over Christmas or NY, as opposed to people who are clearly struggling due to being ill with a serious virus. Whether this is because the vaccines are preventing the serious illness or because Omicron itself is a milder illness is another question, but it's nothing like this time last year where loads of seriously ill people were queueing in ambulances outside hospitals. Plus the data's a bit patchy with various backlogs at this time. If SA is anything to go by it will peak (probably around now if truth be told) then decline almost as quickly as it went up. But we shall see, because no-one can tell the future.
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:27   #1146
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Ummm...
His statement was "Only 52% of NHS staff in 2020 were professionally qualified clinical staff."
Your figure quotes "Prof. Qual. Clinical staff - 610k", which is 52%, so how is it incorrect ?
This bit…

Quote:
The bureaucratic cost thus consumes a very high percentage of the budget that could have been used years ago to recruit and train additional medical staff
He was implying that the remaining 48% were "bureaucratic cost" when in fact the larger proportion of that 48% are directly involved in patient care, not bureaucracy.
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:28   #1147
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Well centuries of licking boot appears to have served serfdom in the Kingdom well for the “papers please” society you warned us of.
But we don't have a 'papers please' society. Other European nations do. France is famous for the population's general contempt and occasional beheading of authority but they have national ID cards, it's the law to have your driving licence with you when driving, they have COVID passes as mandatory and in lockdown you literally had to carry a paper with you to justify being outside.

I think for the best example of the difference you should look at the population's general relationship with the police and that of other countries. Much less hostile on both sides and it's better for everyone.
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:34   #1148
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
But we don't have a 'papers please' society. Other European nations do. France is famous for the population's general contempt and occasional beheading of authority but they have national ID cards, it's the law to have your driving licence with you when driving, they have COVID passes as mandatory and in lockdown you literally had to carry a paper with you to justify being outside.

I think for the best example of the difference you should look at the population's general relationship with the police and that of other countries. Much less hostile on both sides and it's better for everyone.
I’m merely using Pierre’s description of vaccine passports that have been introduced without some of the prophesied controversy, if however too late to be effective.

I suppose the police here are alright unless you are an ethnic minority, a striking coal miner, speak with an Irish accent while carrying a table leg or protest against an illegal hunt but I digress...
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Old 30-12-2021, 22:38   #1149
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Re: Coronavirus

Not many striking coal miners around…
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Old 30-12-2021, 23:39   #1150
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not many striking coal miners around…
The pit wheels are still turning in his head, where it’s always 1984 …
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Old 31-12-2021, 00:04   #1151
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
But we don't have a 'papers please' society
We do if you want to exercise your "democratic" vote
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Old 31-12-2021, 00:10   #1152
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Re: Coronavirus

Ah yes, those striking miners, like the ones that threw a concrete block off a bridge, killing a taxi driver ....

Not really anything to do with Coronavirus, so lets get back on topic eh.
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Old 31-12-2021, 10:46   #1153
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Re: Coronavirus

An additional problem with the passport plan is how long does passport last and thus is there a chance of becoming "infectious" between obtaining passport and attending "event"? If based on LFT's how do you police them, how do you prove that someone tells the truth about their result or simply omits test if positive could have financial impact? Do you want to force PCR's tests to go to the cinema/theatre/pub?
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Old 31-12-2021, 15:18   #1154
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Re: Coronavirus

It’s being alleged on social media that Wales First Minister, Mark Drakeford, has been spotted across the Wales Border, & checking in to a Hilton Hotel in Bristol. Shameful if true.

This is the same idiot who’s locked down hospitality & Night clubs in Wales for the new year which has been considered totally unnecessary, as NHS chiefs here, say no new curbs are required.
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Old 31-12-2021, 15:47   #1155
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Re: Coronavirus

Im not sure NHS chiefs think that, or even Sage, but it’s certainly the politicians - the decision makers - stance.

I’d be stunned if Drakeford was that stupid, but equally the first to condemn him if true. While not illegal it’s certainly not in the spirit of what he’s asking others to do.
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