R.I.P Alfie Evans 'Dies’ after life support ends

Ted Cruz @tedcruz 4 hours ago
It is a grim reminder that systems of socialized medicine like the National Health Service (NHS) vest the state with power over human lives, transforming citizens into subjects.

It’s quite sad that he doesn’t see the irony of what he’s saying - in the USA, Alfie would already be dead, as his parents couldn’t have afforded the treatment he has received from our ‘socialised medicine’ free of charge.

This case is becoming a proxy for other arguments: The rights of the parent vs doctors/courts, in Italy it's religion (and political bonus points) and in America it's about how bad the NHS is.

Few seem concerned with the humans actually involved but nonetheless deem themselves qualified about what medical treatment Alfie Evans should have.

[heero_yuy]

Even if they can keep him alive, he'll never be cured and become a normal child. At best he'll be a living corpse.

As stated by many others he's being used to bash any and all involved as if they're some heartless ogres.

It should still be up to the parents to decide the child’s fate. Not the government, not the doctors.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

It’s quite sad that he doesn’t see the irony of what he’s saying - in the USA, Alfie would already be dead, as his parents couldn’t have afforded the treatment he has received from our ‘socialised medicine’ free of charge.

And how the hell would you know what they could afford in the U.S?

They may have a better quality life in the U.S and have health insurance. Bottom line is you don’t know, they have held fundraisers over here, so may be they could raise funds to get treatment. At least they would have a choice what to do and not being dictated to like our government and ‘Death panel’ in the NHS are doing. We are getting absolutely slated across the world because of this, people abroad remember the Charlie Gard case well and here we are again, ruining a families life with red tape and bullshit.

Originally Posted by Mick

It should still be up to the parents to decide the child’s fate. Not the government, not the doctors.

There is a point at which the Doctors, and then the court, can intervene if they think the child is coming to harm.

They may have a better quality life in the U.S and have health insurance. Bottom line is you don’t know, they have held fundraisers over here, so may be they could raise funds to get treatment.

What treatment? No one has said there is a treatment for this condition IIRC.

At least they would have a choice what to do and not being dictated to like our government and ‘Death panel’ in the NHS are doing.

We don't have death panels in the UK. That's a right-wing talking point that they've made up to slate the NHS and our county in general. Finally the Government didn't decide his. It was his Doctors and a independent court.

You said it best when you said 'we don't know'. The only people who know are the Doctors and Parents and the courts have found the former more convincing. I find it odd people in the US can be so sure of what to do in a case they are not involved in. Especially when many of them don't see to understand who makes these decisions and the process involved in making it.

The child is coming to harm, when he is struggling to breath. Last time I looked, euthanasia is a crime in the UK, being in healthcare myself, I was taught from the start, that to neglect a person to the point that they die, is potentially manslaughter. I do not agree the State controls everybody.

The parents own that child, not the government, not the doctors. We are being described abroad as evil, kidnappers and even “Nazi” like behaviour, with the dictatorship style rulings over the parents wishes.

Originally Posted by Mick

The child is coming to harm, when he is struggling to breath. Last time I looked, euthanasia is a crime in the UK, being in healthcare myself, I was taught from the start, that to neglect a person to the point that they die, is potentially manslaughter. I do not agree the State controls everybody.

This isn't euthanasia. Turning off life support systems is a common end of life procedure. It's often done when there is no hope of recovery which the doctors seem to think is the case here. It certainly not manslaughter or neglect either. They will continue palliative care as well I imagine.

Originally Posted by Mick

The parents own that child, not the government, not the doctors. We are being described abroad as evil, kidnappers and even “Nazi” like behaviour, with the dictatorship style rulings over the parents wishes.

The people abroad are not reacting to the facts of the case but a caricature presented to them by those with ulterior motives. Many of them seem to think, as you've said, that the Government have decided this but they have not. We will be called all sorts of things but in the end the interests of the child should take precedence, not America's opinion of us.

One thing I have not done is cast any judgement or opinion on the issue itself. This is a horrible and tragic case for Alfie Evans' parents, his doctors but most of all him. I don't know the details of his condition or his treatment or even how best to handle this situation. I don't understand how anyone, least of all people completely unconnected to the case, can feel so sure of the correct thing to do.

Originally Posted by Mick

The child is coming to harm, when he is struggling to breath. Last time I looked, euthanasia is a crime in the UK, being in healthcare myself, I was taught from the start, that to neglect a person to the point that they die, is potentially manslaughter. I do not agree the State controls everybody.

The parents own that child, not the government, not the doctors. We are being described abroad as evil, kidnappers and even “Nazi” like behaviour, with the dictatorship style rulings over the parents wishes.

No one OWNS a child. They are not PROPERTY.The parents have rights but they NEVER,EVER supersede those of the child.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

This isn't euthanasia. Turning off life support systems is a common end of life procedure. It's often done when there is no hope of recovery which the doctors seem to think is the case here. It certainly not manslaughter or neglect either. They will continue palliative care as well I imagine.



The people abroad are not reacting to the facts of the case but a caricature presented to them by those with ulterior motives. Many of them seem to think, as you've said, that the Government have decided this but they have not. We will be called all sorts of things but in the end the interests of the child should take precedence, not America's opinion of us.

Indeed who gives a toss what they think, I'd have thought they'd be more concerned with the anything from 10 000- 40 000 people that die every year because they can't afford insurance, still at least they have freedom or had it I should say.

I do have an opinion on this though, if Alfie were my son I'd probably do exactly the same as his parents.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

No one OWNS a child. They are not PROPERTY.The parents have rights but they NEVER,EVER supersede those of the child.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

No one OWNS a child. They are not PROPERTY.The parents have rights but they NEVER,EVER supersede those of the child.

Quite right, Maggy. Exactly what kind of life the poor boy has and can expect is something people should ponder.

It's the child that matters, not the feelings of others who are happy to allow this suffering, and worse, to be played out for as long as they can manage to do so.

Of course, we all feel sorry for the parents, but as a parent myself I would not want my child to suffer like this. Poor little mite.

[richard s]

I would not like to have my child on a life support machine year in year out after being told there is no hope of recovery.

[Caff]

I don't understand why the parents aren't spending every precious moment with little Alfie, just focusing on him alone while he's still around and supporting each other. But, then, I'm not having to deal with the torment that they are going through.

[denphone]

Very sad news this morning as my thoughts and condolences go out to the parents of brave Alfie.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...f-life-support

[MalteseFalcon]

Very sad news.