Coronavirus

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The Vatican seems (reluctantly) happy with aborted tissue derived cells at least - https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/03/...nate-children/

Unfortunately, HEK-293 cells are your 'go to' cells for Adenovirus production as they are really easy to handle and persuade to make Adenovirus for you.

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------



Ah, I see the issue now. The press release says the following;



So 70.4% is technically correct but an averaging of two different approaches

Press release here - https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/si...ss_release.pdf

So, a press release written by someone who doesn't understand how journalists work, picked up by a journalist who doesn't understand how science works.

We're all screwed. (I read somewhere)

[Sephiroth]

Averaging two different approaches is of little practical value in this case.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Averaging two different approaches is of little practical value in this case.

I agree, but I don’t think there’s anything sinister in the reporting. I don’t think anyone intended for the press release to be used that way.

It looks like the 90% protection rate is established from a sample of participants in the trial that is too small to justify headlining the 90% figure. Most participants seem to have been given the dosage regimen that resulted in 62% protection. Nevertheless the scientists appear to be sufficiently confident they can replicate 90% protection in a large trial of that regimen that that’s what they really want to talk about this morning.

The BBC original report however is what almost inevitably happens when you give technical press releases to the non specialist, probably quite junior hacks running the graveyard shift. The word “disappointment” shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near the page. That wasn’t in the Oxford press release and isn’t attributed to anyone else who might actually know what they were talking about. It is however the sort of interpretive commentary the BBC is very good at - suggesting what people should think about the news rather than just telling it as it is. Try watching any live to-camera report on the Six or the Ten and see how many of them sign off with an unattributed suggestion as to how “many” will react to what’s just been said.

And I won’t go off on one about the editors’ code of conduct that makes clear the importance of clear distinctions between a journalist reporting the news and a journalist offering opinion or commentary ...

[jfman]

Chris I'm not in disagreement here I just think they're crap and seeking clicks.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by Chris

Man cannot live on beer alone ...

Well I can as I drink Cider or one of my 18 different bottle of vodka.

[jfman]

He drinks a lager drink, he drinks a cider drink, he sings the songs that remind him of the good times...

Sorry Maggy.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

He drinks a lager drink, he drinks a cider drink, he sings the songs that remind him of the good times...

Sorry Maggy.

He drinks a lager drink,
he drinks a cider drink,
he drinks a lot of vodka
sleeps a lot I think.

[jonbxx]

The AZ press release - https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-ce...zd1222hlr.html gives a little more detail on the statistical significance;

One dosing regimen (n=2,741) showed vaccine efficacy of 90% when AZD1222 was given as a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart, and another dosing regimen (n=8,895) showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart. The combined analysis from both dosing regimens (n=11,636) resulted in an average efficacy of 70%. All results were statistically significant (p<=0.0001). More data will continue to accumulate and additional analysis will be conducted, refining the efficacy reading and establishing the duration of protection.

The 'p' value of <0.0001 is pretty compelling, roughly saying that there is a 0.01% chance of these results happening by chance. The release correctly says that this is still preliminary data with more to come. Without challenge testing (deliberately infecting trial subjects with SARS-COV2 to see what happens) there needs to be a lot of people in a Phase III trial.

Given that the Flu Vaccine is about 50% at best, I'll take 70% as being good.

Im sure I read somewhere that you only need about 70% of the population immune for a virus to stop spreading (the infamous herd immunity ).

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by jfman

He drinks a lager drink, he drinks a cider drink, he sings the songs that remind him of the good times...

Sorry Maggy.

Hey, that's enough of the banter.

[Carth]

Had an important looking letter today from the NHS. . . they're now almost begging me to have a flu jab.

Included in the envelope was a second letter, this one informing me that sending letters out was costing the NHS money it could use elsewhere . . .

well excuse me, but if you'd taken notice the first, second, and third, even the fourth time I said I didn't want one, you wouldn't be wasting your bloody money.

I suspect Flu is transmitted in a very similar way to Covid-19 . . and I'm already taking rather stringent measures to prevent that, thanks.

I just got a text from our Surgery for a flu jab (eligible because I'm between 50-65), and I'll be booking it once I've had the 2nd jab (3rd December) from the COVID vaccine test I'm part of (there has to be a 7 day gap between the 2nd jab and getting a flu jab).

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I just got a text from our Surgery for a flu jab (eligible because I'm between 50-65), and I'll be booking it once I've had the 2nd jab (3rd December) from the COVID vaccine test I'm part of (there has to be a 7 day gap between the 2nd jab and getting a flu jab).

Good luck.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I just got a text from our Surgery for a flu jab (eligible because I'm between 50-65), and I'll be booking it once I've had the 2nd jab (3rd December) from the COVID vaccine test I'm part of (there has to be a 7 day gap between the 2nd jab and getting a flu jab).

Had my flu jab on Saturday just.

Also was offered the pneumococcal (sp.) jab so had that too.

Both in my left arm as I'm only 9 weeks past major surgery on my right arm.