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PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ignored
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:18   #106
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I didnít say I had, I said I had used those words - i didnít say in what way I had used them. Much like what the times article said.
The Times article said:
Quote:
She would tell officials their work was f***ing useless?Ē
So why on Earth is it relevant if you used the phrase in a different work context?
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:25   #107
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Worth noting that the majority of civil servants are female, 53.9%. This ranges from 45.2% female in some grades up to 57.2% in others. But doubtless the higher grades are the male-dominated ones. Based on this data, I wouldn't call it a male-dominated sector.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...sion-dashboard
Well Male MPs still out do women by 2-1

And 60% of the most senior are male too.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-civil-service

Itís not as bad as some sectors granted.

---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Absolute whataboutery.
Yet true.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:26   #108
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

I can't dispute whether you swear at work, or whether it's acceptable in your workplace, that's correct.

I can however consider it completely irrelevant to the case at hand. You should write to that guy who resigned and see if it makes him think about it in a new light.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:31   #109
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The Times article said:


So why on Earth is it relevant if you used the phrase in a different work context?
Tell which officials and how?

I can tell you know that only recently on a zoom call when I was advised of a course action taken when trying to resolve a fault I definitely said “well that was bloody useless”. I didn’t swear on that occasion, it depends on the audience.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:33   #110
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well Male MPs still out do women by 2-1

And 60% of the most senior are male too.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-civil-service

Itís not as bad as some sectors granted.
Yet true.
Your accusation was that the Civil Servants were male, pale and stale. I'll concede to you that the Conservative Party are, and much of the Labour Party, but again that's nothing to support your completely unsubstantiated assertion that this Minister of questionable competence was treated differently on the basis of sex or gender.

Dare I suggest perhaps she was promoted beyond her capability to deflect from a male, pale and stale Cabinet?

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Tell which officials and how?

I can tell you know that only recently on a zoom call when I was advised of a course action taken when trying to resolve a fault I definitely said ďwell that was bloody uselessĒ. I didnít swear on that occasion, it depends on the audience.
Why didn't you swear? Did you think it'd be considered unacceptable?
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:54   #111
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I can't dispute whether you swear at work, or whether it's acceptable in your workplace, that's correct.
Thank you, thatís very gracious.

Quote:
I can however consider it completely irrelevant to the case at hand. You should write to that guy who resigned and see if it makes him think about it in a new light.
I donít know why Sir Phillip ďresignedĒ, he looks like a big boy, with over 30 years of experience. He also looks like ( and this absolutely my own opinion of which I have no factual basis) someone who is to getting his own way and spat his dummy out when he didnít.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Dare I suggest perhaps she was promoted beyond her capability
you could make that unsubstantiated assertion, youíre good at pointing them out.

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Why didn't you swear? Did you think it'd be considered unacceptable?
Nope.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:57   #112
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

That's a selective quoting masterpiece there, Pierre. I doff my cap to you for avoiding all of the tricky bits.
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Old 22-11-2020, 19:58   #113
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Inappropriate ? Quite possibly but "bullying" ? Nope.
You've been listening to too many snowflakes Hugh.


Not really.
As a Senior Manager, you are using the authority of your position and workplace when you use that sort of language - it’s called "punching down".

If someone uses their position and authority inappropriately (for example, by shouting at people and/or calling them f’ing useless), when the people being shouted at just have to take it and have no redress, I think it’s bullying - they’re picking on someone who can’t fight back.
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Old 22-11-2020, 20:15   #114
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Well Male MPs still out do women by 2-1

And 60% of the most senior are male too.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-civil-service

It’s not as bad as some sectors granted.
Why is the gender ratio of MPs important when she's been found guilty by the report of breaching ministerial code of bullying civil servants, which is not a male-dominated profession?
It would make sense if the breach concerned her bullying of MPs but it doesn't. So your reason for defending her ceases to exist.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 22-11-2020 at 20:20.
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Old 22-11-2020, 20:49   #115
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Why is the gender ratio of MPs important when she's been found guilty by the report of breaching ministerial code of bullying civil servants, which is not a male-dominated profession?
It would make sense if the breach concerned her bullying of MPs but it doesn't. So your reason for defending her ceases to exist.
ďWestminsterĒ as a sector, includes civil servants and MPs and Lords.
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Old 22-11-2020, 20:54   #116
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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ďWestminsterĒ as a sector, includes civil servants and MPs and Lords.
So your justification for her bullying Civil Servants is that the Conservative Party donít have enough women/people of colour and there arenít enough of them appointed to the Lords either?

Thatís quite astonishing. Can I bully my staff tomorrow because the Chinese I had delivered earlier took over an hour? I know thatís nothing to do with them but thatís neither here nor there apparently as long as you are a Conservative minister of questionable competence.
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Old 22-11-2020, 21:45   #117
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
So your justification for her bullying
I havenít ďjustifiedĒ anything.
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Old 22-11-2020, 21:46   #118
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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I havenít ďjustifiedĒ anything.
We can agree on that.
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Old 22-11-2020, 22:26   #119
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Re: PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns over his advice on Priti Patel being ign

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
So your justification for her bullying Civil Servants is that the Conservative Party donít have enough women/people of colour and there arenít enough of them appointed to the Lords eitherr?

Thatís quite astonishing. Can I bully my staff tomorrow because the Chinese I had delivered earlier took over an hour? I know thatís nothing to do with them but thatís neither here nor there apparently as long as you are a Conservative minister of questionable competence.
How did you make that stretch, my friend?
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